Nokia, please clear whats up with your SUPERPIXEL promise from Barcelona 2018

Nemesizz

HI Nokia.
What about your Superpixel feature, officially announced in Barcelona, at the Nokia 7 Plus (Selfie Cam)? Adaptive camera technology which 4 pixels (i.e. from the 16MP sensor) is billed to 1 Super pixel (i.e. 16MP will make 4MP as it is and was a component of PureView? I only get conflicting answers to inquiries. 

These range from:

-there is no super pixel (I see this way despite the announcement)

-the 16MP is the superpixel image (sorry that is not possible, 16MP in superpixels would be 16 divided by 4, so 4MP and not 16MP combined result in 16MP).

-the 4MP setting in the app corresponds to the Superpixel image, but that also cannot be the 16MP have a 4 to 3 aspect ratio and the 4MP image a 16 to 9.

It would be great if clarity were finally provided here. Either the feature doesn't exist, it doesn't come, it doesn't come, nor does it come or the announcement was a slick lie.
The worst version would be if your selfie camera really (since everything else apps only recognize 4MP) only a 4MP sensor and you super sample the picture only up to 16MP, but that would be exactly the opposite of what you announced and promised.

As mentioned, provides clarity.

I now have statements via chat, Facebook and email that contradict each other, and none of them technically correspond to what your announced superpixel (according to the imagination, as I said, exactly what was part of PureView).

From 4 pixels calculate a pixel with the best what was in the 4 pixels, so must! Become 16MP a 4MP image and also in the same aspect ratio.

sorry for bad englisch, typed with MS Translator

Nemesizz

When I put the answers together via email, chat and Facebook contact, it must be damn hard to understand the question, answer it or find someone at HMD/Nokia/Zeiss who can answer the question to an officially presented feature (which is just Non-existent) or the answers offered simply cannot be correct (technically).

Manan Mehta

the sensor supports pixel binning but the software of nokia is just rubbish
it is the same sensor which is present on on oneplus 3T

Manan Mehta

the software doesnt does know how to use the full potential of the camera sensor which results in so poor qaulity images

Manan Mehta

please update the app nokia and all the algorithms..look at GCAM!!!

starlancer

I believe the pixel binning (4 in 1 pixel) is switched on by default for all third party apps so they recognise the resolution of the selfie camera as 4MP even though the native resolution is 16MP. I think Nokia upcales the 4MP photos and saves them as 16MP for the Nokia camera app.

mehtasameer2087

So that means the camera is 4mp which it looks to be by performance,the resolution is adjusted by software to 16mp the actual snap is not 16mp

Nemesizz

mehtasameer2087 said:

So that means the camera is 4mp which it looks to be by performance,the resolution is adjusted by software to 16mp the actual snap is not 16mp


No, 4 native Pixels are 1 Superpixel.

16MP Sensor Pixels are making 4MP Superpixeld.

The best results of Information from 4 Pixels are made to one Superpixel. Thats one of the Mainfeatures of PureView.

The Problem is, Nokia Cam doesnt provide such Setting. 4MP only at 16:9 but the 16MP Setting is 4:3 so the 4MP cant be the Superpixel Setting, it must be 4MP 4:3.

Thats a primised mainfeature of the Nokia 7 Plus at Barcelona, at the beginning of 2018 so we are near 2019 and doesnt have this Setting and doesnt get clear Infos from HMD/Nokia/Zeiss.



At 29:35 …….

mehtasameer2087

Nothing is clear about 7 plus cameras, especially the front one, why all this hidden controversies I don't understand, why can't they be open about specs and functions, it's only ruining there goodwill, people will just change the brand there is lot of stuff available

Nemesizz

Strange. At first, the HMD/Nokia Facebook Support was very trying to find a clarification and find it very quickly, now that I have described again exactly what it is all about, including the video and the statement in the video, neither the email support nor the Facebook Support (Media Team) and now ignored me for 2 weeks.

Nemesizz

starlancer said:

I believe the pixel binning (4 in 1 pixel) is switched on by default for all third party apps so they recognise the resolution of the selfie camera as 4MP even though the native resolution is 16MP. I think Nokia upcales the 4MP photos and saves them as 16MP for the Nokia camera app.

That would be more than peculiar if Nokia announces something with Zeiss for the 7 Plus, as the great feature and then it's only available for other apps? It was indirectly about the new camera and picture software, oh and the great new AR features that come in (where are they all?). Are the 4MP images of the other apps actually 4:3 or 16:9? The feature would only be active if 16MP 4:3 also became 4MP 4:3 and not as the Nokia Cam offers, 4MP 16:9

Nemesizz

So, Nokia and HMD, what about superpixel or pixel binning on the Nokia 7 Plus?  Neither can the email support help (all of a sudden, although you could communicate with me beforehand, you can't do anything with superpixel) and even the facebook Nokia Chat no longer reports, even if you write it again, all after you are quite clear showed that you announced and advertised Superpixel for the Nokia 7 Plus in Barcelona. Now it is mentioned for the 8.1 but to the 7 Plus one apparently deliberately ignores this topic quite deliberately.

stipe1906

What's the controversy here? Put the image resolution at 4 MP and you have pixel binning

Nemesizz

No u haven`t . it must be the same aspect Ratio , 16MP Sensor has 16MP at 4:3 , so 4MP, when there is Pixel binning, or superpixel or PureView, must be 4MP 4:3 and u have not this Option. and, of Course, u have no better Picture at same conditions (testet). 
and then, yea then, there are the answers from Nokia.

16MP Setting ist superpixel (eh, sure not!!)
4MP 4:3 is Superpixel (eh, we dont have this Option)
WE never sayd such Thing (eh, of Course u did say such Thing!!)

stipe1906

No. That's not how a camera senor is measured. A camera sensor is circular, it's not a "4:3" rectangle. Here a photo from the 808 pureview how sensor looks and 16:9/4:3 ratios are calculated. Don't know what difference it makes in quality, but if it uses pixel binning, then you need to set the resolution to 3 or 4MP.

Nemesizz

on all Nokia and Microsoft Phone that used PureView, whats Nothing else (+ some more Features) u allways needed to take the same Ratio. Thats what i know. 
But, as i sayd, the 4MP Pixel cant be the superpixel Picture at this time, ist much more bad then the 16Mp, No better noisereduce, no better light, no better sharpness and and and… i think , 4MP is 4MP and not 16 Superpixeld.

And as i says, email support and facebook Chat support told me, there is no such feature and they never sayed somethink About this… but we all know the truth.

when ist 4MP 16:9 , ok, then i take this, no Problem but actualy there is no binning.

Nemesizz

ah and what i can tell, on all PureView phones (or superpixel phones) u only get the superpixel Picture with the same aspect Ratio form the highest MP with same Ratio. 

stipe1906

That makes sense. Checked on a 7+ the selfie photo quality in different resolution and the higher the resolution the better the shot (which makes sense). So, we will have to wait for someone from HMD who knows how that's implemented to explain it.

inqix

Nemesizz said:

No u haven`t . it must be the same aspect Ratio , 16MP Sensor has 16MP at 4:3 , so 4MP, when there is Pixel binning, or superpixel or PureView, must be 4MP 4:3 and u have not this Option. and, of Course, u have no better Picture at same conditions (testet). 
and then, yea then, there are the answers from Nokia.

16MP Setting ist superpixel (eh, sure not!!)
4MP 4:3 is Superpixel (eh, we dont have this Option)
WE never sayd such Thing (eh, of Course u did say such Thing!!)

Just use Google Camera, there you have 4MP 4:3 

Nemesizz

stipe1906 said:

That makes sense. Checked on a 7+ the selfie photo quality in different resolution and the higher the resolution the better the shot (which makes sense). So, we will have to wait for someone from HMD who knows how that's implemented to explain it.

and here, welcome to my world.

as i sayed, 

i talked to support via email
i talked to support via facebook media team

answers are:
16 MP is the finished binning Picture <-- LOL ?
4MP at 4:3 <-- eh, we have not 4:3 as option
There is no Such Feature <-- OK, thats our Problem
The Sensor has no SuperBigPixel so it cant work <-- Superpixel is not Sensor with Big Pixels!
We never talked About such Feature <--- Eh eh eh, U DID, we can watch it on Youtube

After i told them About the bulls*** , sorry, wrong answers and showed them on both, email an facebook the links to the Barcelona Meeting and press , i only get, silence and, the funny way, on email they told me they cant provide help on not working Features, so who can ?

Nemesizz

inqix said:

Nemesizz said:

No u haven`t . it must be the same aspect Ratio , 16MP Sensor has 16MP at 4:3 , so 4MP, when there is Pixel binning, or superpixel or PureView, must be 4MP 4:3 and u have not this Option. and, of Course, u have no better Picture at same conditions (testet). 
and then, yea then, there are the answers from Nokia.

16MP Setting ist superpixel (eh, sure not!!)
4MP 4:3 is Superpixel (eh, we dont have this Option)
WE never sayd such Thing (eh, of Course u did say such Thing!!)

Just use Google Camera, there you have 4MP 4:3 

Yeah,,,,,
but we Need Nokias Tricks for Superpixel. There are alot of ways a Company can use this.
And, on Google Cam, we have 4:3 but do we have some sort of binning? Only using the Resolution isn`t the way.

Nemesizz

inqix said:

Nemesizz said:

No u haven`t . it must be the same aspect Ratio , 16MP Sensor has 16MP at 4:3 , so 4MP, when there is Pixel binning, or superpixel or PureView, must be 4MP 4:3 and u have not this Option. and, of Course, u have no better Picture at same conditions (testet). 
and then, yea then, there are the answers from Nokia.

16MP Setting ist superpixel (eh, sure not!!)
4MP 4:3 is Superpixel (eh, we dont have this Option)
WE never sayd such Thing (eh, of Course u did say such Thing!!)

Just use Google Camera, there you have 4MP 4:3 

Yeah,,,,,
but we Need Nokias Tricks for Superpixel. There are alot of ways a Company can use this.
And, on Google Cam, we have 4:3 but do we have some sort of binning? Only using the Resolution isn`t the way.

Nemesizz

inqix said:

Nemesizz said:

No u haven`t . it must be the same aspect Ratio , 16MP Sensor has 16MP at 4:3 , so 4MP, when there is Pixel binning, or superpixel or PureView, must be 4MP 4:3 and u have not this Option. and, of Course, u have no better Picture at same conditions (testet). 
and then, yea then, there are the answers from Nokia.

16MP Setting ist superpixel (eh, sure not!!)
4MP 4:3 is Superpixel (eh, we dont have this Option)
WE never sayd such Thing (eh, of Course u did say such Thing!!)

Just use Google Camera, there you have 4MP 4:3 

Yeah,,,,,
but we Need Nokias Tricks for Superpixel. There are alot of ways a Company can use this.
And, on Google Cam, we have 4:3 but hav

Nemesizz

So, so nothing new here? Really interesting, one of the most important features that were advertised at the performance does not seem to exist to this day.
And Nokia?
After refuting their statements in chat and email (which were absolute quateful), now completely ignore any question about Superpixel and PixelBinning regarding the 7 Plus. Even the Facebook Nokia Chat reads my question what with my answer, which was promised, though my question was read. Email support points out that you can't say anything about such questions.

Great Action  

mehtasameer2087

The chat & email support doesn't know n of Nokia and c of camera forget about answering them for super pixel stuff, no one from technical team has put their for down to explain, so much controversies on Nokia 7 plus camera I am stated to think they are under pressure to deteriorate the quality further of 7 plus camera as I am experiencing from October patch onwards

stipe1906

At the Nokia India event for Nokia 8.1, superpixels were explained on stage. When the front camera detects "low-light" conditions, it automatically lowers the resolution and uses pixel binning to produce a better shot. 

daniel g m

Reference (7 Plus launch video on Nokia Mobile official channel)

mehtasameer2087

stipe1906 said:

At the Nokia India event for Nokia 8.1, superpixels were explained on stage. When the front camera detects "low-light" conditions, it automatically lowers the resolution and uses pixel binning to produce a better shot. 

The problem is that it never has worked till now,never seen a super pixel binned image in low light ,they keep on getting worst and worst especially the front camera,back camera has lot of focussing issues in low light and 2x mode ,infact 2x mode has focussing issue even in daylight it will just keep on fluctuating in auto or pro mode,so pixel binning is a distant theory on paper I think not in practical

Nemesizz

mehtasameer2087 said:

stipe1906 said:

At the Nokia India event for Nokia 8.1, superpixels were explained on stage. When the front camera detects "low-light" conditions, it automatically lowers the resolution and uses pixel binning to produce a better shot. 

The problem is that it never has worked till now,never seen a super pixel binned image in low light ,they keep on getting worst and worst especially the front camera,back camera has lot of focussing issues in low light and 2x mode ,infact 2x mode has focussing issue even in daylight it will just keep on fluctuating in auto or pro mode,so pixel binning is a distant theory on paper I think not in practical

oh, it worked great on older Nokia and Microsoft phones (925 930 950 for me), it is/was part of PureView.

for the new 8.1 they again told that there will be pixelbinning, as done before on 7 Plus presentation. 

so, for me it was a lie for the 7 plus.

i give up:

wyk

& the 2x optical zoom is not truly optical.... Its Digital zoomed & cropped. For the present HMD camera team just cant reach the pureview achievement soo nothing theorical we need practical improvements. As the Google is doing with pixel camera.