Hi everyone,
Following on from my previous posts about what I learnt in Dubai here's a post dedicated to cameras. I'm no expert on cameras, and my memory is now a little hazy but I hope that I manage to share with you some interesting things which are news to you. (note that all my photos were taken with a Nokia 8 on latest (at the time) Android 8.1 with stock HMD camera on auto mode).
@SeqTre,
@nitheesh,
@sajwaz,
@singhnsk,
@wilson shrestha,
@juho lemmetyinen,
@nokianchetan and
@shaunmoroz , you were there too, did you learn anything
else? Please also tag others who were there.
In the Q&A with Juho he compared the HMD app to the GCam:
- Daylight performance is a
case of personal taste - some may prefer what GCam produces, others may not
- HMD don't want to over process
or colour-pop
- In my opinion (not Juho's necessarily) the HMD camera produces more natural and photographically correct images than GCam does, in daylight
- In low light there is a clear difference however
- HMD consider below 100 lux as
low light - for info, this is probably higher than the lighting we had in the room where we discussed with Juho, see below photo:

- GCam has machine
learning powered processing which helps with low light; HMD don't have this
- Gcam solution is very
powerful, HMD are working on making theirs comparable; Juho is not happy with the current status quo
- In the Nokia 8.1 the significant sensor improvement
compensates for low light so there is not so much need for AI on this new phone
- (Personally, I'd prefer if HMD just gave us bigger lenses and better sensors and didn't spend time on AI, but that's my personal opinion)
Also in the Q&A with Juho he explained that some Android apps, e.g. Facebook, don't actually use the whole image processing pipeline! They use a shortcut. This is obviously bad for HMD publicity, but why isn't it also bad for Google and other camera vendors? I presume that if some of the pipeline is missed out that the phones with the best optics then look the best, which is where Nokia phones with ZEISS optics should do well! Shouldn't they?

At the launch event after the Q&A I spoke with a gentleman from the MENA region office and asked a few questions which he was reluctant to answer (!). One was about the PureView trademark, which is publicly known is now owned by HMD (see EUIPO website) but for some reason he only wanted to talk about the Nokia 8.1 and not future unannounced possibilities... I can't imagine why?!

(it was the launch event of the 8.1, so it's understandable). However, he did explain that there was a gentleman from ZEISS elsewhere in the experience zone so that is where I went next...
Comments
... and as others can confirm I spent a long time talking to him! Unfortunately I didn't note his name and don't want to risk getting it wrong (or spelling it wrong) but he had some great exhibits:
In the spirit of cameras, here's all my photos and video from the event! https://photos.app.goo.gl/CTS4z5DvpGihzVTd6
@SeqTre, @nitheesh, @sajwaz, @singhnsk, @wilson shrestha, @juho lemmetyinen, @nokianchetan and @morozshaun, you were there too, did you learn anything else? Please also tag others who were there.
Cheers
PS - if I remember anything else I'll add in the thread below. (but three posts is already enough, right?!)
Hehe, no problem
And, I think I have to disagree with you on this:
I feel like AI on smartphone photography is the need of the hour regardless you have a bigger lenses or better sensors in your phone. Because Google Camera is a valid proof to this.
To my knowledge HMD is slowly making progress on their camera software with the recent updates to their camera app with the new Pie OS on different Nokia phones that lacked these feature before and they are mostly focusing on the Pro mode which is like their speciality. Pro mode is great and all but let's be honest here, its for someone who really likes to tinker with the given setting and for those who plan to spend tons of time taking a single great picture.
Now, In real life situation currently normal people don't like to get into this mumbo jumbo of the Pro Mode, they just want to take out their smartphone and click and get the nicest picture. They don't care about the process behind this and surely don't want to spend time in it. This is where the Google Camera outshines because it appeals to the masses with its magical AI and computational photography. Even professionals praise Google Camera for its simplicity.
The state of Nokia Camera in front of Google Camera is like this specially in low light photography:
In Nokia Camera, you will take tons of time tinkering with the exposure,shutter speed etc. on the pro mode to click a nice picture in low light where no one knows how much time will it take for you to click a perfect picture.
But, in Google Camera you take out your phone and click the picture whether its low light or not, you don't have to care the rest is done by the camera software. It will surely give you a nice picture.
I will personally choose Google Camera for the reasons I listed above.
I think Nokia should certainly invest time in AI for cameras. With, all the smartphone manufacturer gravitating towards AI, Nokia surely shouldn't be left out. We surely, can't expect Nokia Camera to perform like Google Camera at the moment but it doesn't mean that Nokia should give up on this. They should keep investing time and keep experimenting with their software.
I think you walked around with a recorder. I would never be able to come back with such an information load.
I am 100% agree on this.
A good read on computational photography:
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/what-is-an-ai-powered-camera
Actually, there are tons of different area of study on deep learning. Here is interesting one;
http://personal.psu.edu/fuf111/publications/intelligent-portrait-composition-assistance-deep-learning-image-retrieval.pdf
I found a nice article.
https://nokiamob.net/2019/01/09/hardware-software-multi-camera-phones-and-other-stuff-discussed-by-nokia-community-forum-members-at-the-dubai-event/
i feel HMD should revamp the camera UI first as it feels cluttered ...when we can swipe shutter button up to launch pro mode so why a different tab for pro needed. In GCam
Google also defines auto exposure.. exposure compensation. . HMD parameters according to user this makes the app stand out from others.
To others who were in Dubai: please do comment and/or add your own stuff.
HMD seems to want to listen to users/fans, although why some of the basic failings of the Nokia 8 have not yet been fixed beats me.
I have no issue with picture quality (I frequently take whole series of photos with the standard camera app and the pixel app); I'm referring to horrible EIS 720/1080 video and the video focus issues. My 8 plays 4k video perfectly, BTW. Just can't edit it in-phone...
https://nokiarevolution.com/nokia-5-1-plus-review-is-it-a-top-notch-mid-ranger/
i was a bit disappointed about the Camera, but after Android Pie update, it tooks better photos, better HDR and a pro-mode.. Low - Light also improve.. kudos to HMD for doing great on updates.. i hope they keep on doing this .
You are Right HMD needs to focus on better sensor instead of AI , AI on Nokia 8.1 is not doing Well
See The Difference Below
In Daylight AI capture More Cold Tones Than the original
While switching OFF AI capture Original Colours