Losing points for disagreements and flags could be abused

Hi HMD team! Thank you for posting the new forum guide and information on ranks and points, that's going to be very helpful to lots of people.

Losing points for disagreements and flags could be abused

madbilly madbilly
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Hi HMD team!

Thank you for posting the new forum guide and information on ranks and points, that's going to be very helpful to lots of people. However, now that you've revealed how it works there's a chance that some people may try to game the system. Most worryingly, some people may use the disagree and flag buttons to troll people because they know it will reduce their points - could this cause a derank, so that people lose privileges?

In other forums I've been involved in the idea of "negative rep" didn't work because it could be used in this way so the feature was disabled.

I'm sure you'll keep an eye on how it's being used, or abused, and change it if needed.

Cheers :)

Comments

  • wilson shrestha wilson shrestha
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    Yup, I do agree with this. So, far we have seen some of the user here in the forum complaining about random people flagging and disagreeing their comments and posts for no reason. But, this could be a bigger problem in the future as you have mentioned.

    I think they should limit the use of disagree and flag button on how often it can be used in a day or something like that and give the right to use this button to only the users who have exceeded a certain point. 

    I think it will be harder to monitor this as the community grows larger and larger everyday. So, its better they think of something beforehand.
  • singhnsk singhnsk
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 7
    @madbilly I have a slightly varied opinion. There are a few which I have seen to be gaining points by making too many comments, most of which are duplicate, spammy, trolling others etc. And during their spam spree, they also get promoted to a higher rank. So, a system wherein a disagreement takes away points has some meaning.
    But I also agree that it can be abused very easily. If somebody is against your POV, then he/she can disagree with every post or comment that you make, on any post. Maybe for best interests, it can be removed. I'm just slightly concerned about people with one-word or poorly written comments also getting value equal to somebody spending the time to think and write the posts.

    The points taken away on flagged posts should be removed though. The points should be taken away only when the flagged post is seen by moderators and deleted. If it is deleted, deduct 5 points directly.
    And maybe each person flagging a post should be given 1 point when the flagged comments are deleted. A reward for helping keep the community clean ;)

  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 7
    Yes gaining rep by gaming the system could also be a problem. I only really hope that HMD keep watch on it and change the way it works of it's being abused.

    Edit: in fact I think I've noticed someone gaming the system recently, although it may not be intentional. I was sent a message asking me to support two threads this person had started. These threads seem to have become very popular, way more popular than other similar threads and posts have become (with identical ideas!) so I wonder if they sent a message to many people asking for support?
  • madbilly madbilly
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    Hi Laura,
    Thanks for the feedback, good to know that these things are still being tested and monitored.
    Cheers :)
  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
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    @madbilly i remember I said a word about on this topic previously which made you think that it was negative and also you disagree my comment for that matter but here you are with a new discussion on the respective issue.  ;) :D

    Cheers

    I agree with whatever said and discussed here. People are flagging anyone's comment for no reason. Step should be taken.

    I don't think someone has more flagged than me :Dand this guy @CSanchez abused my comment for no damn reason, I think all people are running after me for flagging and abusing my comments 😂  
    This guy has so much hate for NOKIA, God help him.🙏

  • Argho Sarkar Argho Sarkar
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 17


  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
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    @Argho Sarkar what have quoted? is not posted. 
  • Argho Sarkar Argho Sarkar
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    What I had written would be hated even more .. and evryone would be angry .. that's why i removed it 
  • Argho Sarkar Argho Sarkar
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    madbilly said:
    Hi HMD team!

    Thank you for posting the new forum guide and information on ranks and points, that's going to be very helpful to lots of people. However, now that you've revealed how it works there's a chance that some people may try to game the system. Most worryingly, some people may use the disagree and flag buttons to troll people because they know it will reduce their points - could this cause a derank, so that people lose privileges?

    In other forums I've been involved in the idea of "negative rep" didn't work because it could be used in this way so the feature was disabled.

    I'm sure you'll keep an eye on how it's being used, or abused, and change it if needed.

    Cheers :)
    Can I ask you a ques if you dont mind ?
  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
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    @HMD_Laura please look forward to this issue as I have 24 spam and 3 abuse that too from that person who never participate in any activity and only came once. I don't know what problem they have with me but I am sure they haven't have anything to do on community other than this.

  • singhnsk singhnsk
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    NIMIS said:
    @HMD_Laura please look forward to this issue as I have 24 spam and 3 abuse that too from that person who never participate in any activity and only came once. I don't know what problem they have with me but I am sure they haven't have anything to do on community other than this.
    I believe it is perfectly normal now. You'll find haters as well as likers. So, there will be a good balance. We cannot stop all users from sharing their agreement or disagreement to a post just because some people are abusing the system. Also, as she clarified, it will not result in a demotion.
    In your case, the single person downvoting you is a problem. But I can't think of any way to get out of this. A single person looking for your posts and starting to report spam is weird. What started this? Are you sure it was all done by a single person? Maybe some post that he/she took too seriously :|
  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 18
    @singhnsk yeah a person named @Alexander Mac did and one more guy recently abused my comment @CSanchez, it all happened after I reported a guy named @Sameer Mehta who used explicit language against me and @HMD_Laura removed him from community. 

    Also I don't have problem with disagreeing comments, it's normal. But why are you deliberately for no reason flagging my comments, it is simple that person tried to make me out from community by doing such insane act.
  • wilson shrestha wilson shrestha
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    HMD_Laura said:
    Hi y'all 

    I get all your points and concerns and the whole ranking system is for now in a 'trial'.  We have an eye on the flagging and disagreeing parts and how some users (unfortunately) already abuse it for no reason. So far there is no degrading in the Rank even if you're losing points. 

    We have a look at how the system is working and is taken by all of you and will accordingly change it when needed or when the Ranking system and especially the points will have a more significant meaning in the forum. 

    Best regards,
    Laura 
    Hello @HMD_Laura, I have an idea for introducing a New Badge on the community forum related to this very topic that we were discussing.

    I think the community users who haven't disagreed to anybody's post or comment for over a year (or even more as you wish) should be awarded with 100 points. And, I have even thought of a name for this Badge. It should be called  "The Saint"

    :D
  • madbilly madbilly
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    @wilson shrestha nice idea! Or, depending on one's point of view this person could also be referred to as a "doormat", "libertarian" or even full on "anarchist".

    @singhnsk because he's so clever he often posts things that people don't understand, but more than @wilson shrestha because he's so nice! Maybe people just genuinely disagree with what you've posted? Anyway, I don't think that looks like a problem for you at the moment.

    However, I agree that you seem to have been flagged a lot for spam and abuse. I had a quick look at those posts - are you sure it's not because you're mentioning lots of people's names to get their attention? That could easily be interpreted as spam or abuse by some people. Try not doing that for a few weeks and see if it reduces the number of flags you get.

    Cheers :smiley:
  • todesurteil todesurteil
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    To be honest I don't mind people disagreeing with my posts not everyone will have the same opinion or see things the way I do that' s life. 

    The problem I have is people flagging and reporting. For example my post on the Dubai event. Had 6 flags if I remember correctly and all I wrote was my history on the phones I owned. Till this day I don't know why and what I've been accused of or anything for that matter. Did they try to discredit me to gain an unfair advantage in the competition? Who knows?

    Maybe before points are deducted or you are demerited the persons flag post/comment to staff should be shared with you and comments from staff, if any, and you should be given the opportunity to defend yourself and state your side of the story and explain yourself from the accusations made by the flagger before points are deducted or any kind of demerit takes place. In my opinion that will be fair. Just like in court you don't go to court and don't know what you are accused of and don't get the chance to defend yourself.
  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 18
    @madbilly FYI it was done by a person who didn't even involve in any activity yet. I already mentioned that person came just once for doing such insane act, if you are so much to assume check it out by yourself I mentioned his name above. 
    And yeah, in all 24 comments I've not mentioned every time, people I mentioned only in few comments that too in starting alright? Stop blaming me that I tagged lot of people that's why they spam my comment, whoever I tagged they didn't spam any of my comments. 
    A Random guy just come to spam and abuse my comments

    And it is not happening now, that comments which has spammed and abused was done in a single day by single person and didn't happen after that.  Get your information right then right anything about me.

    I faced this issue first time I message  YOU, and what did you say at that time, If I had in your place I would have IGNORED it, well that's what I did because I was totally new here, and look YOU COME UP WITH ENTIRE DISCUSSION ON IT Now.

    Are you always that ironic about what you say in private and what you say in public? Or is it just with me you do?

    Edit - I just saw our messages you also said "I don't even look at who is flagging my posts or disagreeing with me". 
    Then what made you discuss on this issue? If you don't even look at those flag?
    If you say, should I post snapshot of what you said in message was completely opposite what you are talking about here? 

    How paradoxical of you, mate?

    Cheers. 


  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
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    @todesurteil I agree with your point of view. Rightly said.
  • Argho Sarkar Argho Sarkar
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    is there anyway I can share my community points and badges to someone ?? I am not in community for these points or badges.. just here to find solutions to my problems and help anyone who needs it..
  • Argho Sarkar Argho Sarkar
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    To be honest I don't mind people disagreeing with my posts not everyone will have the same opinion or see things the way I do that' s life. 

    The problem I have is people flagging and reporting. For example my post on the Dubai event. Had 6 flags if I remember correctly and all I wrote was my history on the phones I owned. Till this day I don't know why and what I've been accused of or anything for that matter. Did they try to discredit me to gain an unfair advantage in the competition? Who knows?

    Maybe before points are deducted or you are demerited the persons flag post/comment to staff should be shared with you and comments from staff, if any, and you should be given the opportunity to defend yourself and state your side of the story and explain yourself from the accusations made by the flagger before points are deducted or any kind of demerit takes place. In my opinion that will be fair. Just like in court you don't go to court and don't know what you are accused of and don't get the chance to defend yourself.
    you mentioned a truly best solution
  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 18
    @madbilly How paradoxical of you, mate? 

    When I faced this issue, first message I did to you because I was new I didn't know about who is monitoring this community, but I messaged you about how do I deal with person who flagged and abused my post? 
    And you said "I don't even look at who is flagging my posts or disagreeing with me, if I were you I would have ignored those activity".

    Then why you're here with an entire new discussion on the same? How does it matter to you all of sudden? And for proof how contradict you are with your statement, should I post snapshot of message here?

    Secondly, it happened only one day (not happening right now anymore like you said stop tagging people and all) by single person i.e. Alexander Mac , a person who hasn't have any activity yet and came just to flagged my 24 posts in an one go. One more information you need to know that it happened just after when a guy named sameer Mehta removed by @[email protected]_Laura for his explicit language against me. 
    And the people I tagged neither spammed nor abused my ANY post or got any objection for tagging except you. 

    @[email protected]"nitin kachare" who helped to understand what's right and not to do, in a polite manner which has to be acceptable.

    Though I did tag people in few days of starting 'cause I was totally new to community. And once you asked me not to I stopped tagging you.

    Get your information right and then write about me. Half information is equally wrong.

    People like @[email protected]"nitin kachare" @[email protected]"Argho Sarkar" should get extra point for helping people the way it should be not just blaming others for a decades with half information. 

    Cheers. 🙏🙂




  • madbilly madbilly
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    I think that @HMD_Laura or someone has been moderating this thread because part of my last post has been deleted and I got an email telling me that @NIMIS had mentioned me, but now that post has disappeared. What is left in my post above about @singhnsk and @wilson shrestha doesn't make any sense now, but for the record it was about ration of disagrees:posts. Maybe that caused some disagreement and was flagged as abuse/spam/inappropriate content or something and that's why it was deleted. Who knows.

    And frankly, who cares, there are more interesting threads to read on this forum. I'm satisfied that @HMD_Laura has said that they are keeping an eye on people abusing the system and on that basis I think this thread can be closed.
  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 18
    @madbilly yes I mentioned you in a comment and when I got to that comment to edit some information and try to post, it just got erased I don't know how. I tried 2 times. Well I have more work to do right now, will write in free time again.

    Cheers.
  • nitin kachare nitin kachare
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 18
    @HMD_Laura You may restrictions to new users for flag i.e.Rank 1 Or Rank 2 Users.
    1.You can allow flag comments for user after Rank 2 
    2.You can enable flag comments function After 50 or 75 or 100 Points Of User.
    It will beneficial for all users i.e. Loyal and Real Nokia Users.Real Nokia Users doesn't do like flag all comments or dislike all comments of a particular users because Nokia Users are here to share our experience of Nokia Devices.
  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
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    @nitin kachare agreed.

    @madbilly how paradoxical of you, mate? when I was facing this issue I came up to you for solution because I was new to community and did not know anything about who is monitoring who to complain, so I messaged you about my flagging issue and at that time I had 24 spammed and 2 abused comments, still it is same in nos. 

    what you replied of my message was "does it really affect you? i do not even look at who is flagging my post or disagreeing with me. if i were you i would have just ignored this person and forget about them".  
    are you always this contradict with what you say privately and what you say publicly? or just with me?
    For proof should i post snapshot your messages?

    As a newcomer I did what you suggest me i IGNORED. 
    Now, you are here with the entire discussion on the same, i am confused when you were only person who said me I never look at flag and disagreeing comments then why are you here?when these things doesn't matter to you? 

    Secondly, stop blaming me for decades just because i tagged you initially ( FYI I did tag people few days in the starting 'cause i told i was new but once you asked me not to i did not) people i tagged neither spammed nor abused ANY of my comments.  

    Addressing this statement of yours That could easily be interpreted as spam or abuse by some people. Try not doing that for a few weeks and see if it reduces the number of flags you get
    FEW WEEKS? people who flagged my posts are not who i tag, Get your information valid before writing anything about me, alright? person who spammed as well as abused is the same and only person Alexander mac (who has zero activity till now, he just came to do this insane act with my post and never visited), all my post flagged in an one go in a single day, except that day no one flagged my any comments .
     
    Thank you  :) 
  • NIMISHA NIMISHA
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    People like @nitin kachare @Argho Sarkar @wilson shrestha  @Ganesh uppuluri and many real helper (not mentioning name just to support) who help genuinely should get extra points for helping.
    @nitin kachare  A guy who helped new people to settle, understanding this community and inform about the rules and decorum of community what else newcomers like me want intially?
    I have seen him helping people with politeness that's how it should be done.
  • Argho Sarkar Argho Sarkar
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 18
    NIMIS said:
    People like @nitin kachare @Argho Sarkar @wilson shrestha  @Ganesh uppuluri and many real helper (not mentioning name just to support) who help genuinely should get extra points for helping.
    @nitin kachare  A guy who helped new people to settle, understanding this community and inform about the rules and decorum of community what else newcomers like me want intially?
    I have seen him helping people with politeness that's how it should be done.
    @nitin kachare he is simply the BEST helping hand for me in this community...
  • madbilly madbilly
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    Nimish, I don't think I'm being contradictory. I didn't start this topic for my benefit but to try and avoid a repeat of the the situation you appear to have found yourself in - we don't want anyone to come to this community forum and feel victimised in any way (and there are many ways to make someone feel victimised, not all are as obvious as pressing buttons).

    About the repeated mentioning of people: I looked again at the posts you had marked spam and I see they are all more than two months old so it's clear this is something you've not done for a while. Please excuse my misunderstanding on this, it was an honest mistake - we all make them, nobody's perfect, please show some understanding of this and give the benefit of the doubt.

    @nitin kachare I don't agree that only people with a certain rank should be able to flag posts. This could prevent a newcomer signalling to the moderators that they are being abused which is a situation we never want to have.
  • nitin kachare nitin kachare
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 18
    madbilly said:
    Nimish, I don't think I'm being contradictory. I didn't start this topic for my benefit but to try and avoid a repeat of the the situation you appear to have found yourself in - we don't want anyone to come to this community forum and feel victimised in any way (and there are many ways to make someone feel victimised, not all are as obvious as pressing buttons).

    About the repeated mentioning of people: I looked again at the posts you had marked spam and I see they are all more than two months old so it's clear this is something you've not done for a while. Please excuse my misunderstanding on this, it was an honest mistake - we all make them, nobody's perfect, please show some understanding of this and give the benefit of the doubt.

    @nitin kachare I don't agree that only people with a certain rank should be able to flag posts. This could prevent a newcomer signalling to the moderators that they are being abused which is a situation we never want to have.
    Ok.How do you feel when someone i.e.new user do flag all of your comments without understanding the community or intensionally.There is lots of fake users which is only for distrub regular community member.Disagree is ok but flag comments without any valid reason isn't good.New Community member can get atleast 25 Points for flag comments option to restriction on fake user like @CSanchez
    If New Member Want Any Help then he/she can get help from staff member through tag in post or message.
  • madbilly madbilly
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    Thankfully, as far as I know, this hasn't happened to me (but maybe it has, I don't look at my flags and disagreements). However, if it did happen to me and it was just people clicking disagree and flag then I would just ignore it and that is my advice to you, please just ignore them - everyone else can see that what you're posting is fine so just ignore these trolls and don't retaliate.

    I know that's easy for me to write that, much harder to put into practice. We just need to resist the temptation to look at the reactions to our previous posts (maybe it's easy for me as I don't use facebook!) ;)
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