Pie - standard camera or gcam?

martin.fd

https://nokiapoweruser.com/nokia-smartphones-may-soon-get-night-mode-super-zoom-gesture-shot-other-features-reveal-apk-tear-down/ ...

... ?!?!?! 

user1508938037450

I read it, but I can't believe it. I'm afraid, this will be the next camera-app (in Play Store), where we have to read, "not available for Nokia 8".😳😪
We will see. 😎

petrus

martin.fd said:

https://nokiapoweruser.com/nokia-smartphones-may-soon-get-night-mode-super-zoom-gesture-shot-other-features-reveal-apk-tear-down/ ...

... ?!?!?! 

It's really interesting, just a pity that HMH just catches up with the competition.

MrBelter

martin.fd said:

https://nokiapoweruser.com/nokia-smartphones-may-soon-get-night-mode-super-zoom-gesture-shot-other-features-reveal-apk-tear-down/ ...

... ?!?!?! 

• Gesture Shot
• Kid sound effects
• Boom Key for burst shots

Kin'ell HMD spend the time and resources making it the best camera you can rather than including stupid gimmicks.

jdan

mrbelter said:

jdan said:

I had to take new pictures ...

The first one is the one of the standard camera app, the second one is the shot by the gcam.
Grey weather - tap to focus ...

Both photos look fine to me, nothing a little tweak wouldn't sort out (lowering the highlights on the HMD shot for instance) but for snapshots both great, it would be easier to tell which gave the best quality if HDR well and truly turned off on both apps for all these comparisons and then we would have a baseline.

The best practice is to have both camera apps on board. You then take the scene with both apps (only a few taps extra) and compare the photos afterwards. These days I prefer the gcam for its colours and sharpness - yes, also the gcam one in the comparison I posted.
In another comment you wrote that your wife likes selfies. May I suggest to install the gcam of cstark27 (see above) on her phone and take a few. I bet both of you will be quite impressed. 
P.S. You know I am certainly not a Nokia camera app basher - see my English manual for this camera (click on manual to have a look).

redskua

jdan said:

Unlike many others here on the forum I am quite a fan of the standard camera app (see the manual I have written) but Nokia 8 owner @Francesco Bacchini who was one of the MWC2019 competition winners did so with photographs taken with a gcam. He also has a wonderful collection of Nokia 8 gcam photos on Instagram. All of this is the result of long time experimenting with all sorts of ports and he recently wrote a very interesting article about his most successful gcam set up up till now (then). The article is in Italian, but Google Translate does a good job and the step by step instructions by Francesco make it easy to copy his settings. I did and the results are very nice photographs indeed! I think you should try it too!
Set up:
https://www.nokioteca.net/blog/2019/03/nokia-8-fotografie-al-top-con-la-google-camera-gcam/

,,,really, why should any N8 owner have to go to these extreme lengths in order to get an acceptable image. It should be point and shoot, end of story

Mick1965

@redskua

To get the best out of anything in life requires a little effort

jdan

@redskua
I can only repeat ...
With the Nokia 8 camera you can point and shoot acceptable pictures. See the photos in my manual (link in my previous post) and in many of my posts here on the forum.

Not satisfied with that quality?
I can advise you to download gcam P3v11.4.31 by cstark27 (copy the words in bold in Google) and NOT the one referred to in the Italian article. It takes no more than ten minutes to find, download, install and go through the settings of @Francesco Bacchini:

• save location - on
• sounds - off
• google lens - on
• gestures (to your own liking)
• grid - 3x3
• advanced - everything turned on except raw+jpeg
• photo resolution (both front and back) set to max 13 mpx
• resolution for video - UHD 4k 30 fps
• video-stabilizer - OFF (don't forget to do that)

under P3 MOD SETTINGS everything ON, EXCEPT the following:

• AI AWB IN HDR 
• FOCUS TRACKING
• DISABLE ALIGN
• MANUAL EXPOSURE
• MANUAL FOCUS

Then go back to the viewfinder and don't forget to tap the HDR Icon and set it all the way to the right the maximum which is HDR + Enhanced.

The result: nice photographs - see the samples in my latest posts.

If any one has any other advice to make better pictures with Nokia 8 share them please.
(Of course I would greatly appreciate any improvement in the standard camera app by HMD Global.)

martin.fd

The only recommendation I would have beyond that is to put GCam and NCam side by side on the start screen and whenever the opportunity arises to take a picture with both and compare afterwards which one you like better ...

martin.fd

btw: how do one actually get these smileys smaller???

jdan

(workaround) put a smiley on the next line ...
 

MrBelter

jdan said:

mrbelter said:

jdan said:

I had to take new pictures ...

The first one is the one of the standard camera app, the second one is the shot by the gcam.
Grey weather - tap to focus ...

Both photos look fine to me, nothing a little tweak wouldn't sort out (lowering the highlights on the HMD shot for instance) but for snapshots both great, it would be easier to tell which gave the best quality if HDR well and truly turned off on both apps for all these comparisons and then we would have a baseline.

The best practice is to have both camera apps on board. You then take the scene with both apps (only a few taps extra) and compare the photos afterwards. These days I prefer the gcam for its colours and sharpness - yes, also the gcam one in the comparison I posted.
In another comment you wrote that your wife likes selfies. May I suggest to install the gcam of cstark27 (see above) on her phone and take a few. I bet both of you will be quite impressed. 
P.S. You know I am certainly not a Nokia camera app basher - see my English manual for this camera (click on manual to have a look).

As mess about doing that you might as well pick the one you prefer the most and use an editing package to get the photo how you like, you'll have consistency then.

While i was away i took a photo on a Pixel 2 (although in the N8.1 forum i said it was a pixel 3 like a moron) and one on the Nokia 8.1. The light was very, very poor given it was late at night and although most people will prefer the Pixel shot using night sight the photograph that was saved isn't anything like what the scene actually was. It didn't look like that, light just doesn't work like that and colours aren't that saturated, even the Nokia 8.1 version has been tampered with to make it brighter and more colourful than it was. As a photographer i find this very, very sad, people aren't taking photos, they are taking processed images of what they think they have seen, your brain is playing tricks with you, the world really isn't that sharp, that green, that blue and that red.

Right off the bat I'll say i don't like any of these, it was simply too dark but it did prove a good dark test. They all lack detail, the colours aren't correct and interestingly the noisiest one is the Pixel shot. The way to do this type of shot is with a tripod, a longer exposure, the lowest ISO available and colour correction in post, a handheld phone has no chance.

Pixel 2 with night sight ISO 120

Nokia 8.1 ISO 6000 (full auto)

Nokia 8.1 ISO 6000 (but i have taken it back to more what it was actual like although i still don't think it is dark enough and as you can it was a photo that was never meant to be taken)

What i would also like to add is the Nokia 8 might be a lot slower and it might be a bit older than the Nokia 8.1 camera but the Nokia 8 camera produces images a lot smoother, not as over sharpened and not as over saturated, nicer shot IMHO.

jdan

You seem to do this test as a reaction on my comment. But I don't say anything about night photography. In my manual you can find fine examples of night photography with the standard camera app.

(My point is just install the gcam I talk about and take some photographs with it on Nokia 8. I think it produces better photographs in normal light conditions - see my shots in this topic on May 11 and 17.)

I quite agree with your criticism on night photography - (smartphone) cameras almost never produce true to life photographs. And that is also true for lots of photographs in good light conditions.

On February 19 I wrote in this thread - and because of some strange reason this was repeated on March 19:
About HDR - most smartphones and cameras use HDR these days. It is a sort of fashion and as such everyone seems to like this kind of photos. So if people think that the photos of the Google camera are best they might like it because of the HDR effect - much like people seem to like heavy bass loudspreakers these days. 

(I repeat: my gcam photos of May 11 and 17 are quite true-to-life.)

MrBelter

jdan said:

You seem to do this test as a reaction on my comment

Not at all the photos were taken on Saturday night while drunk with mate 400 miles from home on holiday. My point was once again to argue the point that Gcam is not the saviour of the human race and its desire to take the perfect photo.

MrBelter

jdan said:

About HDR - most smartphones and cameras use HDR these days. It is a sort of fashion and as such everyone seems to like this kind of photos. So if people think that the photos of the Google camera are best they might like it because of the HDR effect - much like people seem to like heavy bass loudspreakers these days.

HDR was nothing like what you see not when it first came out, it produced a pleasing effect to a photo but it ultimately looked like some kind of alien invasion had taken place. How it is used now is very clever indeed (and i am as guilty as the next person for using it) but the reality is things just don't look like that in real life, we are being conditioned by the manufacturers as to what a good photo should look like and not what it actually looks like.

MrBelter

jdan said:

(My point is just install the gcam I talk about and take some photographs with it on Nokia 8. I think it produces better photographs in normal light conditions - see my shots in this topic on May 11 and 17.)

I've just looked at them and again and I'll stand by what i said the first time around they are all very similar, to be honest after some minor adjustments it is nigh on impossible to even tell which is from which app.

jdan

Okay, I can't convince you to download and use the free camera app. No problem. More important is that we agree that the Nokia 8 can take great pictures which are quite true to life. 

(The first three pictures are with gcam. Only the fourth one is taken with the standard camera app. More pictures of gcam P3v11.4.31 in my Flickr album.)

redskua

Mick1965 said:

@redskua

To get the best out of anything in life requires a little effort

,,,the best of everything should be there automatically, all this nonsense trying to overcome an app that was poorly thought thru by Nokia from new, just ridiculous

redskua

jdan said:

@redskua
I can only repeat ...
With the Nokia 8 camera you can point and shoot acceptable pictures. See the photos in my manual (link in my previous post) and in many of my posts here on the forum.

Not satisfied with that quality?
I can advise you to download gcam P3v11.4.31 by cstark27 (copy the words in bold in Google) and NOT the one referred to in the Italian article. It takes no more than ten minutes to find, download, install and go through the settings of @Francesco Bacchini:

• save location - on
• sounds - off
• google lens - on
• gestures (to your own liking)
• grid - 3x3
• advanced - everything turned on except raw+jpeg
• photo resolution (both front and back) set to max 13 mpx
• resolution for video - UHD 4k 30 fps
• video-stabilizer - OFF (don't forget to do that)

under P3 MOD SETTINGS everything ON, EXCEPT the following:

• AI AWB IN HDR 
• FOCUS TRACKING
• DISABLE ALIGN
• MANUAL EXPOSURE
• MANUAL FOCUS

Then go back to the viewfinder and don't forget to tap the HDR Icon and set it all the way to the right the maximum which is HDR + Enhanced.

The result: nice photographs - see the samples in my latest posts.

If any one has any other advice to make better pictures with Nokia 8 share them please.
(Of course I would greatly appreciate any improvement in the standard camera app by HMD Global.)

,,,,,,,,this is what i am saying, look at what you do in order to get a acceptable pic on a N8. I solved my problem actually, i bought a new HTC U11, now that takes amazing pics, simply flawless, no messing around, true point and shoot. And,,, a flawless pie, not one issue. I still play around with my N8, however the N8 has been the most disappointing purchase i have ever made. I believe evryone will come to the same conclusion, it is a shoddy device

jdan

A good choice for the camera indeed: see for example the camera review of Trusted Reviews and DxOMark. So for making great photos you may need these pages in future. Good luck. 

Francesco Bacchini

redskua said:

,,,,,,,,this is what i am saying, look at what you do in order to get a acceptable pic on a N8. I solved my problem actually, i bought a new HTC U11, now that takes amazing pics, simply flawless, no messing around, true point and shoot. And,,, a flawless pie, not one issue. I still play around with my N8, however the N8 has been the most disappointing purchase i have ever made. I believe evryone will come to the same conclusion, it is a shoddy device

Well, Nokia 8 will certainly be updated to Android Q. What about HTC U11? Apart from that, what really matters is the sensor (size, pixel size and model) and the lenses (which on Nokia 8 are definitely better than HTC U11). After that, it's just a matter a software and here GCam helps all of us in taking better picutures withouth a lot of effort at all. There are guides and tutorials all over the web, so it's just about being lazy or not.

Apart from that, I'd really recommend downloading the latest from CStark (you can find it on Celso Azevedo website, under the download page) and set it to maximum. Make sure to disable Google Pixel AWB (Automatic White Balance).

Feel free to write me a pm if you want more detailed suggestions.

martin.fd

Some impressions from last week on the pilgrim way to Trier (all with the GCam from cstark27 and unprocessed):

jdan

Two reasons why gcam may produce better photos than the standard camera app:

• "The presence of an Optical Image stabilization module on the primary camera increases the odds of capturing sharp images in daylight, and brighter images in low-light situations." (from the Nokia 8 review of Übergizmo). The optical stabilisation, however, is present on the RGB sensor, not on the monochrome one and unlike the standard camera app gcam only makes use of the RGB sensor.
• You can use the burst function when using the volume button on gcam (for taking pictures of moving objects and persons). This is not possible on the standard camera.

martin.fd

jdan said:

• You can use the burst function when using the volume button on gcam (for taking pictures of moving objects and persons). This is not possible on the standard camera.

You can also activate "Focus Tracking" in the settings - a feature I like very much

petrus

@martin.fd Incredible beautiful photos.  

user389

redskua said:

Mick1965 said:

@redskua

To get the best out of anything in life requires a little effort

,,,the best of everything should be there automatically, all this nonsense trying to overcome an app that was poorly thought thru by Nokia from new, just ridiculous

HMD's camera app (plus Zeiss and Qualcomm) has its own native tricks. It's poorly documented and not obvious what it does - there's no longer any hint in the EXIF data which auto-mode and metering it applies.

3 full-auto snap/trick shots from the current HMD app is attached, no screen tapping, just pressing the volume-up button after pointing the camera in the right direction and letting it decide what to do.

Notice, the square in the middle of the viewfinder does not mean that it's focusing in the centre - it's a scene evaluation.

-- 
Hans

jdan

For those that want to try a superb Google camera app on Nokia 8.
All info on GCam P3v11.4.31 now in one place. Click here.

potemkin_redux

> @Francesco Bacchini said:
> Well, Nokia 8 will certainly be updated to Android Q. What about HTC U11? Apart from that, what really matters is the sensor (size, pixel size and model) and the lenses (which on Nokia 8 are definitely better than HTC U11).

Could you please provide sources for those statements regarding Android Q update and Nokia 8 superiors lenses? AFAIK Nokia 8 has f/2.0 lenses while HTC U11 has f/1.7 lenses which are capable of capturing more light. Also, U11 has bigger sensor than Nokia 8 (1/2.55" vs. 1/3").

martin.fd

Not so bad for extremely difficult lighting conditions - what do you think?
(GCam of cstark27, only cut out and straightened, nothing else)

Kim JongKook

hey guys. im new to this gcam world and i just installed the latest arnova version. Based on what Ive seen so far everyone reccomend the cstark version. any specific reasons why?

and i also found that the video recording is not recorded in surround sound.. or at least stereo. is the cstark version also has the same behavior?

other than that.. man, for daily photos i think i wont touch the native hmd app anymore except for video recording. mindblowing difference with nighsight at lowlight situation