Photography Tips with Nokia 9 PureView – Understanding Pro mode - Page 2

@madbilly nice explanation.

Photography Tips with Nokia 9 PureView – Understanding Pro mode

Comments

  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited August 2019
    @madbilly nice explanation. That could be the reason but Nokia Lumia 1020 had a physical shutter and there too the EV was not allowed to be set manually if we changed the shutter speed. Maybe it wasn't developed back then. But tech keeps advancing and this might be possible someday. But i am not sure if that would be done in an era of array cameras. 😅
  • Tim9 Tim9
    ✭✭  / 
    Just to confirm madbilly's point.
    Exposure and shutter are the same on a phone.
    Likewise gain and ISO are the same.
  • Tim9 Tim9
    ✭✭  / 
    I believe the reason you have to use auto-focus is the difficulty of setting 5 liquid lenses to the same value. Each one will need to be calibrated and potentially the calibration is affected by temperature.
    This calibration could be continually updated in use but I suspect the software work has not been done.
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Hi @Tim9,
    I don't think any smartphones use liquid lenses yet do they? The examples I've seen cut through show solid lenses. This includes the 8.1 lens.

    So I read a bit more about exposure compensation. It can be achieved either by changing the aperture or the exposure time. However, since we can't change the aperture on HMD's Nokias as far as I know (although Samsung made a recent smartphone that can I think) this means the only way to change it is the exposure time, which on a smartphone is basically the same as the shutter speed, hence why changing shutter speed means that exposure compensation can't be changed.
    I am still interested to know if shutter speed, exposure compensation and the brightness slider in auto mode all work by the same means, or if they use different technical ways. @dipankar paul please can you give us an answer to that?
    Cheers :)
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited August 2019
    madbilly said:

    I am still interested to know if shutter speed, exposure compensation and the brightness slider in auto mode all work by the same means, or if they use different technical ways. @dipankar paul please can you give us an answer to that?
    Cheers :)
    I captured 2 groups of images. 1st two images where one image is shot with +2 EV in pro mode and another one with full brightness in auto mode and both used exact same settings. I have attached the screen shots of the EXIF data. To keep conditions equal for all images, I captured blank images by covering the shutter.





    In group two, I did the opposite. Brightness is set to the lowest in auto mode and EV is set to -2 in pro mode. Again the results are exact same for both images. 


    Shutter speeds in both groups have changed and so has the ISO. When I tried to brighten the image by increasing the EV and everything else kept on auto it just acts as the auto mode. It shoots the ISO to 3200 and the shutter speed is fast at 1/14. 

    It is complete opposite when I try to lower the brightness of the scene. To lower the brightness it reduces the ISO and increases the shutter speed. The ISO is 1250 and Shutter speed has increased a bit to 1/20.

    So, even in pro mode when I keep all other settings in auto and just play with the EV aka brightness it is similar to the auto mode. On this part it works same as the auto mode. But when you change the ISO manually along with the EV. Now the choice of shutter speed by the camera algorithm will be different. Here's another image. ISO 100 -2 EV and as i set ISO to 100 camera assumed the user needs a dimmer image so the shutter speed used by the camera is 1/14 which is faster than the 1/20 used in auto setting with -2 EV. 


    Hope i didn't confuse you further. 😅🙈
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited August 2019
    Good comparison, nice attempt to control the conditions. It could also be good to compare against something white.

    UPDATED:
    I took some comparison shots on my Nokia 8.
    • Auto mode with brightness slider set to full sets shutter speed to 1/20s
    • Pro mode with EV set to +2 sets the shutter speed to 1/20s
    • ISO varied around 600 in the shot I was taking as it was a real life static subject, fairly good lighting.
    • Auto mode with brightness slider set to minimum sets shutter speed to 1/50s, ISO was about 175
    • Pro mode with EV set to -2 sets the shutter speed to 1/100s, ISO was about 110
    I also noticed a bug in the Nokia 8 camera UI. In Pro mode the brightness slide still appears but it doesn't do anything.
    Cheers :)


  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    madbilly said:
    Good comparison, nice attempt to control the conditions. It could also be good to compare against something white.

    UPDATED:
    I took some comparison shots on my Nokia 8.
    • Auto mode with brightness slider set to full sets shutter speed to 1/20s
    • Pro mode with EV set to +2 sets the shutter speed to 1/20s
    • ISO varied around 600 in the shot I was taking as it was a real life static subject, fairly good lighting.
    • Auto mode with brightness slider set to minimum sets shutter speed to 1/50s, ISO was about 175
    • Pro mode with EV set to -2 sets the shutter speed to 1/100s, ISO was about 110
    I also noticed a bug in the Nokia 8 camera UI. In Pro mode the brightness slide still appears but it doesn't do anything.
    Cheers :)


    That's how it works for all phones. More the brightness you set the higher will be the ISO and faster will be the shutter speed. And a complete opposite when you lower the brightness. 😁

    As you said there's a bug in Pro Mode which doesn't let the EV slider work, how did you set the brightness?😅

    This bug was also there on my 7 plus I guess. There's still one bug left which does not allow to use 2X lens in Pro Mode. I'll have to check again though. 😅
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    The EV slider works, but the problem is that the brightness slider is shown but doesn't work. I can change brightness with the EV slider only, which is a shame because it's not as useful as the brightness slider, it doesn't have as many stops or intervals.

    Can't use the telephoto lens in Pro mode?! I didn't know that, that's really very poor from HMD (and FIH, TNS Mobile, or whoever else is involved). @dipankar paul can you please ask for some sort of task force to be put in place to fix all the remaining bugs with the camera apps on the existing phones? It's really inexcusable to have these bugs in place for so long. You want us to recommend your phones to new customers, don't you?

    I wonder if the camera apps are better on non-FIH phones.
    Cheers :)
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    madbilly said:
    The EV slider works, but the problem is that the brightness slider is shown but doesn't work. I can change brightness with the EV slider only, which is a shame because it's not as useful as the brightness slider, it doesn't have as many stops or intervals.
    I am confused. 😅
    Do you mean the Shutter Speed slider doesn't show any effect? If yes, then it is same for every phone. It won't change the brightness in real time as it has to achieve it after keeping the shutter open for the time you set. 🙂
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    In Pro mode on the Nokia 8 there are sliders for focus, white balance, ISO, shutter speed and EV. They all work.
    If I tap to focus in Pro mode I also (sometimes) get the brightness slider pop-up next to the focus point, the same as in Auto mode. In auto mode this slider works and has an effect. In Pro mode this slider has no effect.
    Clear now? Maybe the UI is different on the 7+ and you don't have the brightness slider at all? If I get chance I'll screenshot and post it, but it's a faff.
    Cheers :)
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    madbilly said:
    In Pro mode on the Nokia 8 there are sliders for focus, white balance, ISO, shutter speed and EV. They all work.
    If I tap to focus in Pro mode I also (sometimes) get the brightness slider pop-up next to the focus point, the same as in Auto mode. In auto mode this slider works and has an effect. In Pro mode this slider has no effect.
    Clear now? Maybe the UI is different on the 7+ and you don't have the brightness slider at all? If I get chance I'll screenshot and post it, but it's a faff.
    Cheers :)
    Got it. 😊
    Yes, we don't have such slider in the pro mode. It pops up only when I focus in auto mode. I don't know why it is present in the Pro-Mode of Nokia 8. It shouldn't be there as the EV Slider does the same thing. 
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Yes, I think it shouldn't be there too. Except that in Auto mode the brightness slider gives almost continuous fine control of the brightness, whereas Exposure Compensation in Pro mode (why have I been referring to it as EV?) can only be adjusted in whole stops. So in this way auto mode is actually better!
    Cheers :)
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    madbilly said:
    Yes, I think it shouldn't be there too. Except that in Auto mode the brightness slider gives almost continuous fine control of the brightness, whereas Exposure Compensation in Pro mode (why have I been referring to it as EV?) can only be adjusted in whole stops. So in this way auto mode is actually better!
    Cheers :)
    EV = Exposure Value but both are same. So you can use both phrases. 😁
    Yes, even I noticed that in Auto mode the brightness increase or decrease is much smoother ans not just 1 stop after another. I used it a lot while recording videos once when I was at a concert. 
  • Stukloplast Stukloplast
    ✭✭  / 
    Why would someone use EV compensation in the so called pro mode? You have manual SS and ISO. It's pointless option. They should have added manual focus slider instead...
  • Tim9 Tim9
    ✭✭  / 
    @madbilly My mistake. I assumed the modules I have been using came from phones but it would appear that is not the case. The calibration issue still applies although it may be easier for actuators.
  • Piku2 Piku2
    ✭✭  / 
    I know about this.
  • JayMakoni JayMakoni
    ✭✭  / 
    Thanks for the article but pro mode does not work at all.

    There is no manual focus.

    Tapping to focus resets ISO and exposure.

    Manually settings ISO and exposure will reset focus... And the night time use is non existent.

    Please fix these issues in a patch.
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Hi @JayMakoni that's very good feedback about how things get reset in Pro mode, I hope that @dipankar paul can pass it on. It would be great if you can also write to the support team to tell them this.
    Cheers :)
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
    ✭✭✭  / 
    It would also be nice if @dipankar paul  could actually comment on the replies to the thread that he created.
    If only to say things are being worked on.
    Rude to say the least.
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Hi @Mick1965 while generally I agree that replies would be polite (and correct forum etiquette) I think the social media / commuity management team are very stretched, or at least I'm sure they must have lots of other things to do.
    At least one reply a week shouldn't be too hard though should it?
    Cheers :)
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
    ✭✭✭  / 
    Look below, this week's leader.
    Spending plenty of time in these forums.
    So no at least one reply a week would be polite.
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Fair point. But he's not alone, that's how matteo.m uses the forum too.
  • I'm afraid that counting on the answer from HMD representatives is a bit naive. It's not Nokia, it's HMD. It's a seller, not a company that cares about creating a community of trusted and loyal customers.And the forum is not to help us, and to have somewhere to discharge the frustrations associated with the use of their equipment. Psychotherapy :-)
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Haha, psychotherapy! :D It's definitely psycho something...
  • And people who do not understand the relationship between shutter speed and ISO refer to the topic "Triangle of Exposition " .
  • fmukbil97 fmukbil97
    ✭✭✭  / 

    Here's a video that helped me understand the basics in informative and very simple way:

    https://studio.youtube.com/video/HM0IJsi6usc/edit

  • Ghostooooo Ghostooooo
    ✭✭  /  edited December 2019
    Hi everyone, actually I've found a partial solution for Nokia 9 PV low light situation (for non-pro photographers like me), its simply to turn on flash (manual not Auto) while keeping the iso and shutter speed both Auto so you can only tweak the white balance and exposure. So Why I said partial solution? Because this can only work well when you are trying to capture an object from short distance, but if you want to capture a whole scene like the sky at night then it won't work obviously, personally if for example I want to capture a cup indoors where there are lights turned on, I would lower down exposure to -.7 or -1 to create a nice cinematic shadows and most importantly producing a high detailed photos. U can look at these pictures below.
  • Sisu Matt Sisu Matt
    ✭✭✭  / 

    Do you have any tips on how to stop the viewfinder freezing and the app crashing?

  • jdi000 jdi000
    ✭✭✭  / 

    When does this happen first time opening or after taking several pictures? The phone needs time to process the images.

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