Quarterly Updates

As @HMD_Laura writes here (https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/50979/two-years-of-delivering-on-our-pure-secure-and-up-to-date-android-promise), our Nokia 8 will from October on only be provided with quarterly updates.

Quarterly Updates

martin.fd martin.fd
✭✭✭✭  /  edited August 14
As @HMD_Laura writes here (https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/50979/two-years-of-delivering-on-our-pure-secure-and-up-to-date-android-promise), our Nokia 8 will from October on only be provided with quarterly updates.
I think that this contradicts the "Enterprise Recommended" promise of at least three years of security updates at the latest 90 days after the Google release (https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/comment/124062#Comment_124062)!
What do you think?
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Comments

  • petrus petrus
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    Hi @martin.fd , I agree with you.
  • madbilly madbilly
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    Hi @martin.fd, it's going to be difficult to know if this is a contradiction since the statement is a bit ambiguous. There are two things:
    • The "minimum" of 3 years, which date is this from? HMD have decided that for the Nokia 8 the starting date is some time in October 2017, but was the Nokia 8 really released and available in all markets around the world in October 2017?
    • The minimum 90 days from Google release. I think that this is achievable, so long as it's okay to do it in quarterly updates, which I think it must be. For example, so long as Nokia release the January 2020 update before the 30th March (I think) then they will be compliant. This update would include the updates for January, February and March together, so would meet the 90 criteria for 3 months worth of updates.
    Cheers :)

  • martin.fd martin.fd
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    To be honest, I don't really think it's that important ...
    ... let's wait and see what happens and look forward to another year with a (actually) fantastic smartphone
    :)
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
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    martin.fd said:
    As @HMD_Laura writes here (https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/50979/two-years-of-delivering-on-our-pure-secure-and-up-to-date-android-promise), our Nokia 8 will from October on only be provided with quarterly updates.
    I think that this contradicts the "Enterprise Recommended" promise of at least three years of security updates at the latest 90 days after the Google release (https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/comment/124062#Comment_124062)!
    What do you think?
    90 days is quarterly...there abouts
  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭  /  edited August 15
    Personally I quite like this so called dead horse.

    The standard camera  app is quite good if you know a few things and now I use an even better free (Pixel 3) gcam in most situations.

    As I have bought my Nokia 8 only a year ago I still have another year of guarantee. I had it repaired already once for free and now I can enjoy a nice screen without 'screen pressure point'.

    The most recent version of Android Pie has not shown any bugs for my usage, so that is quite nice too - there will be no new system with possible bugs that can ruin the experience of its new (minor?) improvements.

    And another year of security updates ahead, be it in quarterly updates.

    You may call me naive, of course!

  • martin.fd martin.fd
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    I'm just as naive as @jdan : This "dead horse" is still running fast enough for my needs ... :)
  • mrbelter mrbelter
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    My wifes Nokia 8 is still losing fingerprints if she dares to let it go anywhere near flat and the camera is still really poor especially in low light and it often requires a reboot to clear the camera error that comes up. Yesterday we went to see our new grandson who is in hospital because he is quite small bless him and she was having to borrow my Nokia 8.1 all the time because the Nokia 8 was so terrible in the low light (however you all already knew that lets be honest).

    Of course my wife may well not be a regular user that doesn't want to mess about with 3rd party camera app that requires installation other than from the official channel and then some tweaking to work and i guess she could always bin the fingerprint scanner off entirely and then it would of course be great.
  • martin.fd martin.fd
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    Every racehorse just needs a little attention and care ...
    ... but of course you are right: There are still enough shortcomings and annoyances - but they don't concern me or I have arranged with them.
    :p B) o:)
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
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    Can you not install gcam for her ?
    She is your wife after all. 😊
    P3v11.4.31_GoogleCamera_6.2.024.apk is the version that I use. Works very well for images.
  • mrbelter mrbelter
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    I don't want to install gcam for her though, first things first i should not have to should I? Fixing the camera is HMDs job not mine and no matter how much people defend gcam and wave the flags from the roof tops about how good it is the fact of the matter is HMD have let every single Nokia 8 owner down, the phone is 2 years old and the camera was never fixed, arguably it was made worse with the laughably called pro cam update.

    She doesn't want me putting apps on her phone that are of my choice. After previous chats with her explaining it and the short comings she has said no it is OK, ill stick with the default camera where everything just works (albeit sometimes poorly), where she has live bokeh, beautify, the videos have better audio and everything saves to the SD card. Like i have said before i knew 4 people with a Nokia 8, mine died and the other 3 are happy to snap away with the camera with the odd moan about how slow it is in low light. What people don't seem to understand is the actual amount of people that revere gcam on the Nokia 8 is in reality about 10 people, the rest of the Nokia 8 ownership couldn't give a toss.

    I suspect the vast majority of Nokia 8s are now either retired or dead anyway if i am honest, i know i am praying my wifes packs in and then we can get the money back and just get her a Nokia 8.1
  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭  /  edited August 16
    mrbelter said:
    What people don't seem to understand is the actual amount of people that revere gcam on the Nokia 8 is in reality about 10 people, the rest of the Nokia 8 ownership couldn't give a toss.

    I suspect the vast majority of Nokia 8s are now either retired or dead anyway if i am honest, i know i am praying my wifes packs in and then we can get the money back and just get her a Nokia 8.1
    I am quite surprised by the numbers Google Analytics generates for my Wordpress website. My article on the P3v11.4.31 gcam has been clicked on more than 700 times, the link to download that specific gcam for the Nokia 8 has been clicked upon 396 times. 
    (My manual for the standard camera app has even been viewed 1600 times - I.e. Dutch and English version.)
    It seems that quite a lot of people have a look on this forum in search of useful info. There is also a Nokia 8 forum of xda-developers and quite a lot of other such forums or websites in non-English languages like Dutch (tweakers), Italian (nokiateca), etc. 
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
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    mrbelter said:
    I don't want to install gcam for her though, first things first i should not have to should I? Fixing the camera is HMDs job not mine and no matter how much people defend gcam and wave the flags from the roof tops about how good it is the fact of the matter is HMD have let every single Nokia 8 owner down, the phone is 2 years old and the camera was never fixed, arguably it was made worse with the laughably called pro cam update.

    She doesn't want me putting apps on her phone that are of my choice. After previous chats with her explaining it and the short comings she has said no it is OK, ill stick with the default camera where everything just works (albeit sometimes poorly), where she has live bokeh, beautify, the videos have better audio and everything saves to the SD card. Like i have said before i knew 4 people with a Nokia 8, mine died and the other 3 are happy to snap away with the camera with the odd moan about how slow it is in low light. What people don't seem to understand is the actual amount of people that revere gcam on the Nokia 8 is in reality about 10 people, the rest of the Nokia 8 ownership couldn't give a toss.

    I suspect the vast majority of Nokia 8s are now either retired or dead anyway if i am honest, i know i am praying my wifes packs in and then we can get the money back and just get her a Nokia 8.1
    Yeah you can look at it that way and yes I agree they should have done more to get the camera app right. But they didn't....
    So to me gcam is just another tool in the box. Use it when you need it.


  • mrbelter mrbelter
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    jdan said:
    mrbelter said:
    What people don't seem to understand is the actual amount of people that revere gcam on the Nokia 8 is in reality about 10 people, the rest of the Nokia 8 ownership couldn't give a toss.

    I suspect the vast majority of Nokia 8s are now either retired or dead anyway if i am honest, i know i am praying my wifes packs in and then we can get the money back and just get her a Nokia 8.1
    I am quite surprised by the numbers Google Analytics generates for my Wordpress website. My article on the P3v11.4.31 gcam has been clicked on more than 700 times, the link to download that specific gcam for the Nokia 8 has been clicked upon 396 times. 
    (My manual for the standard camera app has even been viewed 1600 times - I.e. Dutch and English version.)
    It seems that quite a lot of people have a look on this forum in search of useful info. There is also a Nokia 8 forum of xda-developers and quite a lot of other such forums or websites in non-English languages like Dutch (tweakers), Italian (nokiateca), etc. 
    Given you actively and persistently drive traffic towards your own site it i am surprised it is only 700 if i am honest. However what percent of those 700 were actually unique visits and not repeat visitors or the same visitors whos IP address had changed? I suspect out of the entire sales of Nokia 8 700 visits is entirely insignificant, the phone probably sold 10s of thousands in the UK alone given the marketing push, excellent value for money and its high profile on EE. Just imagine how many it sold in the rest of Europe and India. At the risk of repeating myself, the overwhelming majority of Nokia 8 owners could not give a monkeys uncle.

    The Nokia 8 was an absolute beauty but the support it has received has been diabolical, if you are happy to chase the dream of making this 2 year old phone something it never can then i have the utmost respect and admiration for you but for me life is just way too short.
  • mrbelter mrbelter
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    Mick1965 said:
    mrbelter said:
    I don't want to install gcam for her though, first things first i should not have to should I? Fixing the camera is HMDs job not mine and no matter how much people defend gcam and wave the flags from the roof tops about how good it is the fact of the matter is HMD have let every single Nokia 8 owner down, the phone is 2 years old and the camera was never fixed, arguably it was made worse with the laughably called pro cam update.

    She doesn't want me putting apps on her phone that are of my choice. After previous chats with her explaining it and the short comings she has said no it is OK, ill stick with the default camera where everything just works (albeit sometimes poorly), where she has live bokeh, beautify, the videos have better audio and everything saves to the SD card. Like i have said before i knew 4 people with a Nokia 8, mine died and the other 3 are happy to snap away with the camera with the odd moan about how slow it is in low light. What people don't seem to understand is the actual amount of people that revere gcam on the Nokia 8 is in reality about 10 people, the rest of the Nokia 8 ownership couldn't give a toss.

    I suspect the vast majority of Nokia 8s are now either retired or dead anyway if i am honest, i know i am praying my wifes packs in and then we can get the money back and just get her a Nokia 8.1
    Yeah you can look at it that way and yes I agree they should have done more to get the camera app right. But they didn't....
    So to me gcam is just another tool in the box. Use it when you need it.


    Or if the camera is of such importance you could just get rid of it while it is still worth something and pay £270 for a phone that is far superior to start with :)
  • jdan jdan
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    Thank you for your utmost respect and admiration, @mrbelter.
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
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    Define something, not alot is still something 😊
    As a device, it's suits my needs, camera wise, just needs a little bit more effort to get the best out of it, like most things in life really...
    Just going to make the best of what I have for the time being.


  • j gy j gy
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    Is there anyone out there using the Nokia 8.1? What is the Nokia model number in TA- number?
    Thiis TecoBuy is selling this Nokia 8.1 in USA for $306. Is this actually Nokia 8 or other Nokia 7.1X or some such?
  • madbilly madbilly
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    Hi @j gy the 8.1 is definitely a different phone from the 8. You can find all of the "friendly" people in the 8.1 forum elsewhere on this site to get their opinion on it.

    Back on topic, quarterly updates. Meh, there'll be no more fixes now, probably, so we just need to keep our fingers crossed that the updates don't break anything else! There is a rumour on twitter that HMD are going to remove Evenwell apps from all of its phones, does that include these first generation ones? If that happens then I expect we'll be praying with forlorn hope that nothing breaks!
    For now, this is the phone I have and I cannot justify buying another one. I'm just going to carry on using it until breaks and cannot be repaired.
    Cheers :smile:
  • martin.fd martin.fd
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    @madbilly & Evenwell Apps: I remember there were reports from people who shut down all Evenwell apps on their Nokias with no negative consequences.
    But I agree with you: I wouldn't really be in favour of this kind of intervention in the ecosystem ... one should rather let our "horse" work in peace until the real end of its service time and not carry out any new "experiments"
    :#
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
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    I have disabled all of the 28 com.evenwell apps for the last week or so.
    Can't say that I have noticed any difference at all.

    The strange thing is.... Some of the evenwell apps have names like glance, bokeh editor etc. But even with these disabled, glance and the bokeh editor still work.
    It makes me wonder if disabling them actually does anything at all. The reason I disabled them in the first place was to try and get an app working in the background properly again. Which has also made no difference to that.
  • madbilly madbilly
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    Hi @Mick1965, that's interesting. Did you only disable the apps which were com.evenwell...overlay... etc? Or also all of the their corresponding apps elsewhere in the list? E.g. the bokeh editor overlay has a corresponding bokeh editor app. I think it depends how you view the list of apps, whether through the UI or via ADB, as to how their names appear.
    Cheers :)
  • singhnsk singhnsk
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    madbilly said:
    There is a rumour on twitter that HMD are going to remove Evenwell apps from all of its phones, does that include these first generation ones? If that happens then I expect we'll be praying with forlorn hope that nothing breaks
    That won't happen. Evenwell is there in the Android Q builds for 8.1, and it will remain there. HMD cannot afford to no longer have FIH to do the software for the devices for which it has an agreement that FIH will give support for 3 years.
    Also, removing evenwell needs a re-build of the entire OS for those devices and replacements with some other apps which handle that functionality, which at this point is pointless. These devices will stay the way they have always been. I can bet a monkey on this 😅
    Moreover, Evenwell isn't even the reason why these builds have issues. The biggest reason is the existence of the China ROM (which FIH has originally developed) and HMD forcing FIH to remove all the features it added to the CN ROM, to please some users who do not want a more enriched software (I really don't know why such users exist). Then FIH removed it by using software tricks to disable it (rather than rewriting all the code), and not remove it. And then there's enough clash between them resulting in issues, broken stuff here and there and what not. I can close my eyes and say that the CN ROM on any of these devices performs better than the global one. Sure, some are free to call it bloated, gimmicky or whatever :) I have used it and it is just way better.
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
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    @madbilly The only apps disabled were the com.evenwell. Originally I was trying to sort out why an app that in the beginning worked fine and progressively got worse over time. White listing it, originally fixed it, then over a few weeks it's playing up again, disabling adaptive battery seemed to fix it again, then again a few weeks later it's playing up again..... Anyway  according to "don't kill my app" it supposed to be the com.evenwell.powersaving.g3.......... that's messing things up and preventing apps from running when the phones screen is off for very long. 2 minutes or there abouts.
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
    ✭✭✭  /  edited August 20
    After doing a little research on these evenwell apps I thought why not and disabled the lot, fully expecting some things not to work correctly. Nothing obvious seems to have changed, everything works as it did, and even worse the app I was trying to fix still stops in the background when the screen is off. So the question really is what are these apps actually doing, or does disabling them actually "disable" them?  

  • Mick1965 Mick1965
    ✭✭✭  /  edited August 20
    Sorry for the 2 part message as I kept getting the needs to be approved message
    Seems if you mention com.evenwell too many times you need approval
  • potemkin_redux potemkin_redux
    ✭✭  /  edited August 20
    singhnsk said:
    The biggest reason is the existence of the China ROM (which FIH has originally developed) and HMD forcing FIH to remove all the features it added to the CN ROM, to please some users who do not want a more enriched software (I really don't know why such users exist). Then FIH removed it by using software tricks to disable it (rather than rewriting all the code), and not remove it. And then there's enough clash between them resulting in issues, broken stuff here and there and what not. I can close my eyes and say that the CN ROM on any of these devices performs better than the global one. Sure, some are free to call it bloated, gimmicky or whatever :) I have used it and it is just way better.
    I hate HMD and what they have done to Nokia phones brand but I can't say I blame HMD for this. Now when it's clear they can't offer even a fraction of hardware quality, support and innovation from the days of good old Nokia, the only thing they can do to differentiate from other manufacturers is to offer "clean, pure, and up-to-date Android experience". In fact that was entire premise of this HMD project from the start. So it was FIH's fault to develop China ROM which is not reflecting those goals. I would say it was pretty stupid to develop China ROM as a default one, given all the competition of numerous Chinese phone brands on their domestic market. And the data supports this with Nokia phones holding less than 1% of smartphone market share in China.
  • martin.fd martin.fd
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    madbilly said:
    There is a rumour on twitter that HMD are going to remove Evenwell apps from all of its phones, does that include these first generation ones?
    There is a new statement by @HMD_Laura on this topic:

    But: I'm still not sure if I'm really going to throw them down or let my Nokia 8 continue to work as smoothly as it does at the moment ... never touch a running system
    :)
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited August 23
    Hi @martin.fd, I tend to agree - if it aint broken don't fix it, as the saying goes where I come from. It's possible that HMD have already disabled most of the other Evenwell apps as well - as @singhnsk explained, they may only have been useful in the China ROM, not the Global one.
    For now I'm not disabling anything, but I do want to know what all these apps do! :confused:
    Cheers :)
  • Mick1965 Mick1965
    ✭✭✭  / 
    As said I've disabled all of the evenwell over lays With no noticeable effect.
     Not sure how the evenwell overlay apps work, are they part of the main app.
    For example I can disable the power saving G3 overlay but can only force stop power saver app, and it keeps restarting itself.

    From what I understand from don't kill my app which says that they are part of each other. So why does keep restarting if Nokia are supposedly are now not using it.

    Confusing😕




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