IFA 2019 – Livestream - Page 5

As I wrote in other discussions.  These phones (Nokia 6.2 and 7.2) are a step back.  It's time to make phones with a minimal frame around the screen and figure o…

IFA 2019 – Livestream

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  • petrus petrus
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    As I wrote in other discussions.  These phones (Nokia 6.2 and 7.2) are a step back.  It's time to make phones with a minimal frame around the screen and figure out how to hide the front camera.  Why are you always a step behind.  Nokia has always been bold and experimented.
  • singhnsk singhnsk
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    singhnsk said:
    Ah nice, but I see how even he has to repeat like the same things over for each device. I'm still not able to disgest that HMD did twins.
    They did twins last year too. With 6.1 plus and 7.1. Doing twins is fine. I guess even moto did that with G5 series in past? But differentiate them well.

    But those were not the same market devices. Except a few markets, 7.1 went where 6.1 Plus wasn't sold.
  • nokianchetan nokianchetan
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    Any Guesses About Indian Pricing ??
  • He should've been the one on stage 100%.
  • BootloaderUnlockWhen BootloaderUnlockWhen
    ✭✭✭  /  edited September 8
    I wonder if there will be a separate HMD event this December for the 8.2/5.2, like what they did last year for the 8.1. Or maybe they'll delay it til MWC 2020 (god help hmd if that's the case), they did tease an affordable 5G phone running SD7xx for next year so...
  • nokianchetan nokianchetan
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    I Think They Will Launch 8.2 With SD 730 In November End Or 1st Week Of December 
    5G Phone Will Be Different Series I Think 
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    Any Guesses About Indian Pricing ??
    Around 17k for 7.2 would be perfect and 6.2 should be 13k
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    I wonder if there will be a separate HMD event this December for the 8.2/5.2, like what they did last year for the 8.1. Or maybe they'll delay it til MWC 2020 (god help hmd if that's the case), they did tease an affordable 5G phone running SD7xx for next year so...
    I am assuming 8.2 will have a 5G variant and they might announce 8.2 at the end of this year. They can announce that the 5G variant will be coming in a few months and show it at MWC 😁
  • singhnsk singhnsk
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    I wonder if there will be a separate HMD event this December for the 8.2/5.2, like what they did last year for the 8.1. Or maybe they'll delay it til MWC 2020 (god help hmd if that's the case), they did tease an affordable 5G phone running SD7xx for next year so...
    I am assuming 8.2 will have a 5G variant and they might announce 8.2 at the end of this year. They can announce that the 5G variant will be coming in a few months and show it at MWC 😁
    With 5G will need a different CPU. It will be a bad idea to launch the same phone after a few months again xD Let's see :))
  • nokianchetan nokianchetan
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    I Don't Think They Will Launch 8.2 With 5G , Trust Me They Will Definitely Start New Series For 5G Phones 🙂
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    singhnsk said:
    I wonder if there will be a separate HMD event this December for the 8.2/5.2, like what they did last year for the 8.1. Or maybe they'll delay it til MWC 2020 (god help hmd if that's the case), they did tease an affordable 5G phone running SD7xx for next year so...
    I am assuming 8.2 will have a 5G variant and they might announce 8.2 at the end of this year. They can announce that the 5G variant will be coming in a few months and show it at MWC 😁
    With 5G will need a different CPU. It will be a bad idea to launch the same phone after a few months again xD Let's see :))
    8.2 might come in December. If it is launched in December with the new SD 7 series 5G chip but without 5G modem then I don't see anything wrong in it. They can just launch the 5G variant with the latest chip in a month or two. As it will be available in very few markets like the US and a few more. It will be a better decision. Just like all other brands do with their flagships. Launching Nokia 8.2 with SD7XX and a different 5G phone with the new processor would add to the costs as 5G phone won't sell in large quantity.
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    I Don't Think They Will Launch 8.2 With 5G , Trust Me They Will Definitely Start New Series For 5G Phones 🙂
    Starting a new series just for 5G would not be profitable for them. They will just release a 5G variant of the upcoming phone. 5G isn't available everywhere so the phones won't be selling in large numbers. To tackle this I feel they wilt add the 5G modem and make that phone 5G compatible. :)
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited September 9
    I wonder if @nokianchetan has some insider knowledge?! :grey_question:
    I recognise that Juha person now, but can't remember where from as I don't think I watched the videos of him doing a launch event.
    Personally I am expecting the 8.2 to launch with 5G at MWC, but I have no insider knowledge. 5.2 might launch quietly this autumn or winter, like the 2.2 did earlier this year.
    @wilson shrestha you're right that an unlockable bootloader will be needed and just because the 7.2 gets Android 11 it doesn't mean the image will work on the 7+, but it will help someone who knows what they're doing.
    Symbian unfortunately won't come back unless someone completely rewrites the S60 UI layer. There were several reasons that Symbian was eventually laid to rest. Symbian itself (the core) was difficult to write drivers for, because it is designed as low-overhead real-time operating system (it can run the cellular network modem, for example, whereas Linux generally can't). Symbian was open-sourced, but still nobody managed to port it well to anything (the best was a Beagleboard port, but it wasn't working well AFAIK).
    Another reason is that Nokia and Symbian never managed to get it to run at higher resolutions - the max was 640x480 I think on the E6? Even the 808 was 640x360 I think. If Nokia could have increased the resolution they would have, because this resolution was even poor when the N8 was launched and by the time of the 808 it was embarassing.
    The final main reason is that it was difficult to write apps for compared to iOS and Android (though not Maemo/Meego, IIRC) because the SDK only ran in Windows and used some weird version of C++ only for Symbian (I think due to the real-time OS constraints). By the time of the last generation these issues had largely been addressed by moving the app layer to Qt, but by then it was too late.
    I don't mind the twins business, but overall we think that the 7.2 is a 7+ with a new camera and new case, and the 6.2 is the 7.1 with a new camera and a new case! :D
    Oh btw did you see that the 6.2 was prototyped in copper! And they haven't launched it, what?! :astonished:
    Nice to see green coming back though :mrgreen:
  • singhnsk singhnsk
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    @madbilly As NokiaMob said, and we watched, Juha did an awesome launch event of Nokia 8.1 in India. After all he is the marketing manager and should be good at what he is doing. Too sad that he still had very less to speak about the 6.2 and 7.2, mostly because there's nothing new and nothing to be proud of, well, except the design maybe. The design isn't outstanding, but is better than some of their previous and yeah the return of Green is noice.mrgreenmrgreenmrgreenmrgreen
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    singhnsk said:
    @madbilly As NokiaMob said, and we watched, Juha did an awesome launch event of Nokia 8.1 in India. After all he is the marketing manager and should be good at what he is doing. Too sad that he still had very less to speak about the 6.2 and 7.2, mostly because there's nothing new and nothing to be proud of, well, except the design maybe. The design isn't outstanding, but is better than some of their previous and yeah the return of Green is noice.mrgreenmrgreenmrgreenmrgreen
    Nokia 8.1 was new and brought a good set of cameras, PureDisplay (which was something new back then), a striking metal design which is same with Nokia 6.2 and Nokia 7.2. And if we see Juha present the phones in India he will explain it better. The videos for social media are made short and so he can't explain everything with minute details and only focusses on the highlights. But yes the phones have nothing new but let's wait for the India launch. :)

    They need to create an experience for the users. Enough of relying on the name and logo of the brand I love. 😢And also they have to stop depending so much on Google's everything. People are buying a Nokia. People have extremely high expectations due to their past positive experiences with Nokia devices and their after-sales service. Their UI, their own apps along with many customisation options on old Nokias made them look different from other options. Now, Nokia Android One devices look the same as any other Android One devices. In fact, Android One phones from Moto have extra features baked in. If Moto can add their own extra features in an Android One device then why can't HMD do it?

    HMD doesn't want to listen. They don't even want to unlock the bootloaders and I still do not understand WHY they do not want to do it and are also stopping from doing it. So, most users interested in such things do not buy a Nokia. This is sad. There is a lack of dev support and in the last 1 year, I (and even you) have seen so Many Nokia phone owners switch to a different brand just because they can't unlock the bootloader of their Nokia. (Hey @HMD_Laura, please bring some good news regarding the bootloader unlock possibility. Devs can add a new life to Nokia devices which along with good support can attract potential buyers. :) ) I hope things start improving. Still hoping for the best to come. :)
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited September 16
    I think we'll have to wait until MWC next year to see anything truly innovative, like the evolution of the 9PV or multi-camera approach for the 8.2. I highly doubt we'll see any software innovation from HMD until Project Mainline becomes the norm and HMD's marketing on security updates no longer makes them look different.
    Cheers :)
  • Viccky Viccky
    ✭✭✭  /  edited September 17
    When are the new phones going to be launched in India?  They were supposed to hold an event in India on 11th sept. but that has been postponed, I heard the reason was technical(really😳)? Is HMD degrading with each passing day? 🤔
  • Viccky said:
    When are the new phones going to be launched in India?  They were supposed to hold an event in India on 11th sept. but that has been postponed, I heard the reason was technical(really😳)? Is HMD degrading with each passing day? 🤔
    Logistics issues and lack of HMD executives in India, apparently


  • singhnsk singhnsk
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited September 21
    madbilly said:
    I think we'll have to wait until MWC next year to see anything truly innovative, like the evolution of the 9PV or multi-camera approach for the 8.2. I highly doubt we'll see any software innovation from HMD until Project Mainline becomes the norm and HMD's marketing on security updates no longer makes them look different.
    Cheers :)
    Because I like playing with probabilities (I am a math and stats hater though, worst subjects evah!), how likely is it for HMD to make another PureView? Because they aren't going on very well with FIH and Light is FIH's toy too. Will they have enough innovation to make another PureView? Looks like WaWei ( ;) ) Mate 30 Pro is what the PureView should (could?) have been.
    I am confused if we will even see hardware innovation from HMD. They will likely just follow the trend and their trend following does not give me high hopes after their first device with under-display fingerprint pretty much failed. I still can't digest that they decided to include it on their flagship. If it was me, I'd have trashed that and went with a real FP on the backside if a good in-disply was not feasible.
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    singhnsk said:
    madbilly said:
    I think we'll have to wait until MWC next year to see anything truly innovative, like the evolution of the 9PV or multi-camera approach for the 8.2. I highly doubt we'll see any software innovation from HMD until Project Mainline becomes the norm and HMD's marketing on security updates no longer makes them look different.
    Cheers :)
    Because I like playing with probabilities (I am a math and stats hater though, worst subjects evah!), how likely is it for HMD to make another PureView? Because they aren't going on very well with FIH and Light is FIH's toy too. Will they have enough innovation to make another PureView? Looks like WaWei ( ;) ) Mate 30 Pro is what the PureView should (could?) have been.
    I am confused if we will even see hardware innovation from HMD. They will likely just follow the trend and their trend following does not give me high hopes after their first device with under-display fingerprint pretty much failed. I still can't digest that they decided to include it on their flagship. If it was me, I'd have trashed that and went with a real FP on the backside if a good in-disply was not feasible.
    I don't want to see another PureView which is half baked. They did something new with 9PV but it was all about Light and not the real PureView. IMO to avoid bad press they should start making devices at a higher mid-range price segment with mid-range sd soc's and all flashy features such as pop up or punch hole cameras, full-screen AMOLED displays and Quad or Penta rear cameras at the back (Normal, Telephoto, Wide, Macro). And they need to up their camera software as well as the quality of the sensors they use.

    I just came to know in detail about the issue faced by many Nokia 7 plus users including me. This issue is also present on the flagship Nokia 9 PureView. The issue is called Hot Pixel which happens when the sensor gets hot and creates tiny white dots in images which appear like stars in the sky but are visible only when you zoom in the image. This is a hardware issue and happens because of the low-quality sensor which makes the camera bad for the night photography. This is the reason, older Nokia phones will never get longer shutter speed options. I don't know what will happen and I am confused, angry, sad at the same time. I am having mixed feelings and HMD's attitude of not listening to users is adding to it. This needs to change. I feel trapped inside a cage. :/
  • singhnsk singhnsk
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited September 21
    @Kartik Gada At least you aren't as cage-trapped as this poor goblin :D:D


    The choice of hardware has been questionable at HMD. In the hurry to push more devices, they indeed forgot that they were answerable to a legacy. They okay-ed poor quality control, poor components, and then poor support to float their business on the trust of the brand's image.
    I wasn't aware of the Hot Pixel. Thanks for the information :) HMD seriously needs to put more thoughts into whatever they launch. They need to think of the value and innovation that they bring and what is special about their new launch. Devices shouldn't be launched just for the sake of launching something. They can take a good long break, develop some worthy products, do quality checks, procure good components and then they can sell it for higher prices too.  A least the buyers will feel that they bought a Nokia. For now, HMD is still confused in deciding what it should keep as the key pillars of its business.
    I am not shy of saying that the competition is high and those who do not listen to their customer have only one destination.
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    singhnsk said:
    @Kartik Gada At least you aren't as cage-trapped as this poor goblin :D:D


    The choice of hardware has been questionable at HMD. In the hurry to push more devices, they indeed forgot that they were answerable to a legacy. They okay-ed poor quality control, poor components, and then poor support to float their business on the trust of the brand's image.
    I wasn't aware of the Hot Pixel. Thanks for the information :) HMD seriously needs to put more thoughts into whatever they launch. They need to think of the value and innovation that they bring and what is special about their new launch. Devices shouldn't be launched just for the sake of launching something. They can take a good long break, develop some worthy products, do quality checks, procure good components and then they can sell it for higher prices too.  A least the buyers will feel that they bought a Nokia. For now, HMD is still confused in deciding what it should keep as the key pillars of its business.
    I am not shy of saying that the competition is high and those who do not listen to their customer have only one destination.
    You and your Clash Royale. LOL (No. I still won't install this game).  :D

    Their first 3 devices were good except that the 6 didn't have a powerful processor for the price. They used a powerful processor and launched the Nokia 8 at a very good price but later ruined it with a downgrade to camera software and also the low-quality displays used gave nightmares to users. Then came their budget Nokia 2. This time they used best HW, great build but forgot the processor and again ruined the software. To balance the stuff they brought their 2nd gen devices (6.1 and 7 plus) which were great both in terms of hardware and software but as time went we found out the use of low-quality components (faulty USB ports and displays). After these devices, the only good device they launched is the Nokia 8.1 with not many issues found till now. Bad components and bad after-sales service are just adding to the bad experience and they are targetting Millenials which do not care about what the Nokia brand stood for and they just find out about the quality Nokia products of the past and buy these new devices expecting the same but only get disappointed. These are the first time Nokia buyers and for them, the 1st impression is the last impression. They are never going to buy a Nokia once again so easily. This generation will also spread their negative experience at a much faster speed due to connectivity. All this is just hurting the Nokia brand.

    They should stop making experimental flagships for now and just concentrate on upper mid-range and affordable flagship range and strengthen their hold in that market segment. Charging 37k for SD7xx would be fine if they have other gimmicks to play with such as full-screen display, those flashy backs that change the design and colour when viewed from different angles, add your own touch to it as they did with 7.2 making it matte looking, Using more cameras as I said in an earlier reply. People are attracted to a flashy product that stands out and looks different from the other products when they enter a store. Every average consumer wants to show off his pop up camera and Chinese know how to attract customers.
  • singhnsk singhnsk
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    You and your Clash Royale. LOL (No. I still won't install this game).  :D
    Wasn't asking for that here. The animation is pretty nice. I like it, that's why I shared it here :smiley: It's nice, isn't it?
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    singhnsk said:
    You and your Clash Royale. LOL (No. I still won't install this game).  :D
    Wasn't asking for that here. The animation is pretty nice. I like it, that's why I shared it here :smiley: It's nice, isn't it?
    Yup. It's nice. 😁
    But a goblin with such a strong body?😅
  • singhnsk singhnsk
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    Yup. It's nice. 😁
    But a goblin with such a strong body?😅
    This one is is into body-building, you didn't see him lifting weights in the jail? :D He will make his community proud 😅
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    singhnsk said:
    Yup. It's nice. 😁
    But a goblin with such a strong body?😅
    This one is is into body-building, you didn't see him lifting weights in the jail? :D He will make his community proud 😅
    Yup i saw. 🤣🤣
  • madbilly madbilly
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    Hot pixels are an inherent characteristic with any digital optical sensor, they are impossible to completely avoid. I've just read a little bit of the at 7+ thread and obviously if you overdrive the camera hardware you will start to see more noise (which is what hot pixels are one form of). If you overdrive the speakers you will expect to get distortion, won't you?
    The 9PV is a beast, it gets quite warm when taking photos so I'm not surprised that hot pixels are more common.
    How many people with the 7+ are taking photos on warm nights in India with a case and screen protector on the phone? These will reduce heat transfer and the phone will get hotter.
    Cheers :)
  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
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    madbilly said:
    Hot pixels are an inherent characteristic with any digital optical sensor, they are impossible to completely avoid. I've just read a little bit of the at 7+ thread and obviously if you overdrive the camera hardware you will start to see more noise (which is what hot pixels are one form of). If you overdrive the speakers you will expect to get distortion, won't you?
    The 9PV is a beast, it gets quite warm when taking photos so I'm not surprised that hot pixels are more common.
    How many people with the 7+ are taking photos on warm nights in India with a case and screen protector on the phone? These will reduce heat transfer and the phone will get hotter.
    Cheers :)
    Hot Pixel issue on longer shutter speed like 10 seconds on 9PV is understandable. But it happens on 7 plus even if I click a black image in auto mode. This shouldn't happen. As you went through that thread, you must have read that quality of the sensor matters too and samsing sensors are not that great. 
  • madbilly madbilly
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    A sensor in a phone is going to suffer from hot pixels even more than a sensor in any other kind of camera because there is a lot of stuff generating hear nearby, the sensor pixels are already tiny so tiny amounts of noise will saturate them. Considering all this I think that Samsung sensors are probably quite good! Like all manufacturers, they will make a range of sensors of varying levels of quality and maybe HMD didn't spent much money...
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