ZEISS is no longer exclusive to HMD, so is OZO

HMD started rough, with the Nokia 6 and its questionable specifications.

ZEISS is no longer exclusive to HMD, so is OZO

Wade Wilson Wade Wilson
✭✭  /  edited February 24

HMD started rough, with the Nokia 6 and its questionable specifications. When they launched the Nokia 8, I was hopeful that the ZEISS brand will bring the good old NOKIA charm again. Though that phone is sh*t. Now, this news about Xperia phones getting ZEISS lens too is concerning. Not only that it destroy the exclusivity of the brand to Nokia smartphones, but also for the possibilities that we may also soon find this in any random Chinese brands in the future. "Strategic collaboration expansion" as ZEISS calls it.

OZO is already found on OPPO, now ZEISS is also shared with Sony. Nothing is ever exclusive under Sarvikas's play safe management. And the fact that the lenses on this new Xperia phone is way better than anything found on HMD smartphones today talks so much about how cr*p their partnership with this traitor brand. HMD needs to counter this deal, or else, they will lose the chance to bring back that old Nokia charm. As if their current smartphones isn't already as common as everyone else.

Juho's tweet if this embarrassment is also pathetic.

https://twitter.com/sarvikas/status/1231918512525979648?s=19

Need your incites @madbilly

Comments

  • singhnsk singhnsk
    Super User  /  edited February 25

    I think the lens is/was/will be only a positive addition and should not be the sole selling/marketing/buying point of the smartphone. Sony is a long-time Zeiss partner and maybe they did find the need to include the Zeiss lenses to signify the fact that the smartphone was co-developed with the team which works on Sony's cameras.

    It was good until it lasted. But we saw that the lens alone cannot make a smartphone camera better. And since HMD isn't a leading smartphone manufacturer anymore, I think it is fair for Zeiss to find ways to generate more revenue out of its products and brand. Sony's usage of Zeiss lenses should not affect the sales of Nokia smartphones. In fact, it will likely help for the smartphone lenses to get better when both Sony and Zeiss try to create something better.

    Yeah what is worrying is if Zeiss will go too low and collaborates with the Chinese (especially on low-end). It is then when the things may go wrong. But that will just dilute the "premium-ness" of Zeiss's products. Zeiss will have more to lose than HMD from that action in the long run. That said, if Zeiss manages to get its lenses on smartphones (even from Chinese) which take really great pictures, then that's all positive for Ziess. HMD's phones have so far made no such statement.

    As for OZO, it, honestly, never was exclusive to Nokia phones. Nokia Corp., since always, was trying to sell the OZO technologies to more partner and oppo happened to be the first manufacturer (non-Nokia) to start making use of Nokia's audio capabilities. We should see more partners if the technology gets more attention.

    ---

    HMD should comment on what happened to the "exclusivity" though. Agreements do have a meaning and since Sony courted Zeiss, that means HMD's exclusivity agreement is no more. Most likely due to the breach of some terms, which could be related to minimum volume or revenue which hmd will bring to Zeiss.

    As of today, do they even have some kind of agreement with Zeiss? It is yet to be seen if HMD fails to get access to the Zeiss lenses and branding moving forward. We never know.

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    Hi @Wade Wilson,

    I don't really have any insights 😆 Well, maybe one - when I spoke to Oliver from ZEISS in Dubai he told me that ZEISS would only ever do exclusive partnerships as its the only way they can properly work closely with a product team from a manufacturer, to work together to produce an imaging solution that is integrated with the overall product.

    Now, this new collaboration with Sony seems to contradict what I was told, but does this mean that the partnership with HMD will suffer? Maybe, but is that a bad thing? Maybe not - HMD have been building up their in-house expertise so maybe they don't need as much of ZEISS's expertise any more, and can afford to lose the exclusive partnership rights so long as they retain a partnership for the lenses and some collaboration on the overall imaging solution. Since Sony already make digital cameras it's probable that they don't really need ZEISS expertise in either, they just want the lenses (and branding) so maybe the partnership with HMD won't suffer after all. Maybe HMD know this, so they can now pay less to ZEISS for the same quality of service and product - this will mean the phones are cheaper and/or more money to spend on R&D. It could actually be a win-win (same reasoning could apply to the OPPO/OZO announcement as well).

    Or, it really is bad news and @juho is trying to put a good spin on it 🤣 Maybe @singhnsk is right about the terms of the agreement being breached somehow.

    I would disagree that the Nokia 8 is 💩, although I agree the camera is disappointing in low-light and moving-object conditions.

    How do you know that the lens on the new Xperia is better than anything which HMD have used?

    And just to counter the "low-end Chinese" argument - would you be saying this if ZEISS had an agreement with Micromax, Intex, LYF, Jio? 😏

    Cheers 🙂

  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
    Super User  / 

    @singhnsk maybe Sony Mobile is now a part of Sony Corp due to which it can take advantage of the ZEISS+Sony partnership? 🤔 I could be wrong and this is just my guess.

  • DibyaXP DibyaXP
    ✭✭✭  / 

    Believe me I used many Micromax device in back like you yutopia , and other yu device with Cyanogenos , believe me experience is far better than what any Chinese company can pull today . I used some of their premium device too like silver 5 , software optimisation is far better than even latest and greatest miui , may be because Micromax UI is close to stock on silver 5.

    Nothing can be worse than Chinese phone with worst UI . They think SoC is everything

    Lava Jio and Intex are Chinese rip-off.

  • singhnsk singhnsk
    Super User  /  edited February 28

    @madbilly I'm quite confused. A Sony rep told PhoneArena that they aren't using Zeiss's lenses. The lenses are still made by Sony. Now, IDK if that person wasn't aware or Sony is just using that marketing.

    I wouldn't mind which other OEM features Zeiss's optics as long as the overall camera performance on the phone makes a statement. I miss detailed camera markings though. Like, my Nokia 6500 had quite a lot of text about the camera: Carl Zeiss | Tessar 2.8/4.5 | 3.2 Megapixel. That was quite a bit of funky text engraved on the metallic back shell of the phone :D HMD should bring some of it back.

    @Kartik Gada You, sir, might be right. Sony phones are already unavailable in most of APAC, so, whatever they make isn't reaching my hands or a store near me. I can't even test it or buy it even if I want to xD I do like what Sony achieved there though. Even though I know Sony's naming, marketing and time-to-retail is so bad that the sales will be mediocre at best.

  • Kartik Gada Kartik Gada
    Super User  /  edited February 28

    naming.. Don't get me started here as well. I love that Mark II in the name. Sounds super cool. It is like Nokia 808 "PureView" of Sony in terms of naming.😅

  • Muser Muser
    ✭✭✭  / 

    Sony no longer sells phones in most of the world (only a few European countries and Japan) so Nokia devices will still be the most accessible Zeiss smartphones for most people.

    Oppo doesn't have great availability either but losing OZO is much worse IMO because it's a Nokia product. There's a direct benefit to Nokia if HMD is able to succeed, giving away exclusive features will only hurt their chances.

    Zeiss on the other hand is an independent company so they can do whatever they want.

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    Hi all,

    I think that Sony Mobile has been wholly owned by Sony Corp for several years hasn't it?

    Interesting clarification on the PhoneArena website https://www.phonearena.com/news/Sony-ZEISS-optics-partnership_id122507, but it's inline with how I think the HMD-ZEISS partnership works. I think that ZEISS just validates that the lenses are good quality (which could include calibration), the lenses are actually made by another manufacturer who specialises in tiny lenses.

    Cheers 🙂

  • realjazzcoke realjazzcoke
    ✭✭  / 

    Whether Zeiss or Leica lens that is found on mobile phone, these are just a certified lens based on China factory which have strict regulations and procedure to manufacture these lens. Also, money take places in such "partnership" all the time. Sony camera uses the Zeiss lens way earlier than Nokia. The way i see it, it is an opportunity for Nokia to reclaim themselves in mobile photography, either their tuning are better or worse than what Sony are going to offer soon. And this has nothing to do with Nokia or HMD, the rights is on Zeiss for the lens, its up to their terms and condition on how they were able to deal with Sony, i guess nobody here remembered that Sony actually creates a mobile camera attachment that uses Zeiss certified lens DSC-QX100.

    They might lose the sole exclusive brand that uses Zeiss lens on mobile phone, but that doesn't mean they are no longer allowed to feature Zeiss lens on their mobile phone too. So nothing wrong with that either.

    About the OZO audio, since Nokia no longer continues the OZO hardware, it has become a portfolio as a part of Nokia Technologies for audio solution. Oppo pays Nokia in order to feature OZO audio in their flagship phones (i assume not all range from Oppo will get Ozo feature). Again, Nokia phone still features OZO audio too (specific models only). Another company helps to promote OZO audio in their smartphone and bringing revenue to Nokia, i don't see why not in this case.

    By the way, Juho was just welcoming Sony that they now joins what Nokia/HMD did for such a long time. It is a gentleman's gestures. Just like welcoming an formidable opponent stepping in to the arena^^

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