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[Moved] Why not use Symbian on feature phones again? - Page 2

Hi @JAVA, That's very interesting, where did you learn that? Cheers πŸ™‚

[Moved] Why not use Symbian on feature phones again?

Comments

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    Hi @JAVA,

    That's very interesting, where did you learn that?

    Cheers πŸ™‚

  • JAVA JAVA
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    I just the information from a Nokia service center. And I have also connection with Distribution team@madbilly

  • Feature_OS Feature_OS
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  • JAVA JAVA
    ✭✭✭  / 

    I am keeping my promises Just like Nokia @Feature_OS @mad.@madbilly . Official things like Ovi Store and others not working because There no data point to Store or send data. No servers Not available. But Nokia had its backup plan Like Opera mini . I downloaded lots of favourite apps like Amazing spider man. Call of duty and Ghost recon.

    Site Like phoneky and wap dam sites still Hold millions of application.

    And one more interesting things I noticed There is still some developers available@mad . Because you can see in the images above . There is one mentioning about PUBG. And abile to download 2 sound track of AWM and M24.

    As far I am concerned that she is still alive. But she is sleeping πŸ’€. All she need a Jump start. And one more thing I want to back in action is Nokia accounts. Back in 2011 Nokia had Nokia accounts with advanced functions.

    Today there things like samsung account

    Apple ID. So I believe bringing back Nokia accounts with be pretty awesome

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    Hi @JAVA,

    Tthanks for the screenshots, but that's not Ovi store and you said Ovi store was still there, unless I misunderstood.

    Nokia accounts are only useful if HMD provide some online services. What kind of services do you think they should provide?

    Cheers πŸ™‚

  • JAVA JAVA
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    Sorry my bad πŸ˜” servers not working O don't know what happened. Well using Nokia accounts there was plenty options available like FRP protection .

  • JAVA JAVA
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    One of the best developer worked with Symbian and Java OS. Still love them 😍 modern combat was favorite@madbilly @fearlessjiml@fearlessjim@Feature_OS Ring any nostalgia?

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    Hi @JAVA,

    Actually no, but then I think the only game I played on Symbian was Angry Birds! 🀣

    Cheers πŸ™‚

  • Bharath KB Bharath KB
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    U r very curious about the then symbian os but the reality is that Nokia almost lost its tier in the competition but cameback with some of the value for money devices . From my point of view the brand should again get the likes of people all over the world by its old and brand value wisely and then for sure the brand can try to build its own os or it may redesign and rectify its own symbian os to play in competition .

    Anyway it is turnout to be a million dollar dream that phones with symbian os .

    Symbian os master of gesture navigation and almost all the stuffs which is copied by the then tier 1 brands like eaten apple and so on :)


  • JAVA JAVA
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  • JAVA JAVA
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    @Bharath KB thanks for the heads up almond all functions android using now is a part of symbian OS. As far I am concerned Nokia still owned symbian OS. Only asking for one more shot. . Barand Like Nokia with. Symbian OS a featured phone is going to be great.

  • Bharath KB Bharath KB
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    I m not clear that nokia still owns the symbian os or it is sold to microsoft inc ???

    If not nokia should stick around to the symbian os and make it available in the devices as u mentioned and if happens it will be delight to everyone in particular the ovi store ovi maps and the most important developer tool ovi pc tool🀞

  • JAVA JAVA
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    Well according to the source Nokia sold only smartphone business to microsoft. Not software and Symbian OS was discontinued from 2011 . So The original Nokia still owne The symbian OS. Fully and HMD is registered on Nokia corporation. So if HMD make a proposal . Nokia can't ignore it. @Bharath KB

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    Hi both,

    Symbian ownership is complicated. Yes, Nokia bought it all, but the Symbian Foundation still exists as a non-profit and for the purposes of licensing. Almost all the people on the board for the foundation are from Japan, maybe because they still use Symbian in some non-touchscreen phones (they still did until a few years ago at least) - but note this was not with Nokia's UI, it was with their own UI.

    Personally, I think that Nokia probably kept relevant patents but the copyright on all the Symbian code is with Microsoft with the licensing of those patents managed by the Symbian Foundation, but I don't know for certain.

    Cheers πŸ™‚

  • Max the Doctor Max the Doctor
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    @JAVA

    Forget about the new phones with Symbian OS on board, it is 99.99% probability you will not see them. Please take it as an axiom.

    All that you can do is enjoying the classical Nokia phones (or some Sony and Samsung rare models) powered by Symbian. I have no idea how many people use all of them, but Symbian^3 smartphones only are popular with several tens of thousands of people nowadays. Not that much, but also not that few :) Nevertheless, I am pretty sure there will be far more people using S60v5 smartphones and S60v3 keypad phones, comparing to Symbian^3 audience.

    Basically, if you are not dependent on WhatsApp-like thingies, a good old tested by time Symbian smartphone is still great, even in 2020. Especially, with a planned release of the unofficial update once again...


    Well, many of these things are not that hard, but really time-consuming. Also, a big issue is a determination of which Symbian version should continue its "official" existence: S^3 or S^4, or maybe even better idea would be going back to the S60 and S80 split...

    To me, the most problematic thing is "Get any kind of interest from third party app developers to update their apps or develop new ones", maybe because I am too tough to get along with people. Ask around, "In the age of Android and iOS, is there anyone around who is interested in development apps for Symbian?" Even if they will stand up and jump, "I will do!", will they really do that? Or a couple of motivative emails is all that they will leave you alone with?

    It is not that difficult to find anyone who remembers how Symbian works and can do any (many!) of the above stuff, and a genius hobbyist is already replying here. Yet, if one seriously contemplates, it is obviously not a matter of hobby. This is just a matter of time (hobbies normally come as second-priority), cooperation (though I am not alone in this field, it is too hard to coordinate with the others - different free times, tasks, opinions, etc. … fully raising the entire OS is not a thing of a one-person work) and funding (big projects require at least some other funding besides occasional donations, I think no one will be interested in giving funds in something what not many people are interested in).

    Sad. Super sad for me to write like this, but it is how it is :(

  • JAVA JAVA
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    @Max the Doctor Hello. There. You were half right. But were talking about featured phones not smartphone and not about a new OS. The Os still alive. But they just needed a push. Thats symbian have millions of apps KaiOS have . Still able to use them. For me Nokia c series and x series working just fine. Why I am not giving up yet. New KaiOS sucks is never going to equal against Symbian OS.

    Reasons 1 .Apps opening Speed and function

    2.battery Life . Were Nokia used symbian OS on featured phone they had 600 hours and above standby time. A great Power management πŸ’ͺ system

    Today KaiOS can't provide even half of that!!

    And on more thing Nokia (HMD) bringing old Nokia models from death but that were never going to the same device we had used without symbian OS Bringing old models from death not worth of it. As you can see new KaiOS is sucks on featured phones. And before my post one is thinking of symbian OS but now is a discussion. I try my best. Because I don't want see the death of Nokia again.and companies like LG . Xiaomi is coming back to featured phone industry..

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    Hi @Max the Doctor,

    I suspect that you are a person who can tell us some more useful and interesting info about Symbian, and who we should listen to... 😏

    Especially, with a planned release of the unofficial update once again...

    Is this the one you are referring to?

    Or a different one?

    and a genius hobbyist is already replying here.|

    And what involvement do you have in Symbian these days? Or maybe you were referring to someone else? πŸ€”

    All that I've written about Symbian above (and elsewhere in this forum) is based on what I've read or remember reading from years ago, so my memory is quite foggy. I've no experience of developing Symbian or Symbian apps myself. If you correct and clarify some things then that will be much appreciated.

    Cheers πŸ™‚

  • JAVA JAVA
    ✭✭✭  / 

    @madbilly bringing someone known about symbian OS technically . Thank You ❀️ Cheers

  • Max the Doctor Max the Doctor
    ✭✭  / 

    Hi @madbilly

    You suspect absolutely right :)

    You stated the firmware correctly, but there were so many things deeply done and fixed from those times in order to make that firmware work much better these days (http://ovi.h1n.ru/delight/). Nevertheless, this firmware was the best option to start from because:

    - It is based on Belle. It goes without saying there is a big lapse between the initial Symbian^3 release (PDK of which is available as open-source) and Nokia Belle (contains all latest upgrades from Nokia, when it became a closed-source).

    - A lot of hard work was already implemented in that firmware, mostly representing something facilitating that Nokia Corporation did not want to do themselves for whatever reasons.

    A few words about my involvement in Symbian... When I wrote "a genius hobbyist is already replying here", that was a joke. But, every joke is only partially a joke. I do not believe that I am genius (though some people do), yet those updates were spread tremendously. Although I am just a biomedical scientist (i.e. I do not have any IT education in my career), I believe a talented person is talented in everything. This and the following year, there will be custom firmware updates for all Symbian^3 generation Nokia smartphones brought out back in 2009-2012. Even purer sound quality, enhanced video playback, all resolutions of camera, many networking and web improvements, - all of them are unofficial and come directly from me or a couple of more fans like me, - maybe the only drawback is the absence of popular 3rd party apps (not my fault). Owing to super deep optimisations, I do not remember when the last time I charged the battery was. When surfing the Internet every day, I do remember: once in three days... And this is for a 10-year old smartphone battery, which got never replaced! Taking all those things into consideration, I definitely step out of the crowd, doing qualitative and perfect things to something what is considered to be dead, and, moreover, without a source code.

    There is not much to clarify what you recalled from years ago since it is quite obvious. One man cannot do that simply on time reasons, because it will require actualisation and complete update of the entire open-source PDK (broadly speaking about OS itself including web APIs + additional compatibilities for modern hardware types), which is super old. Secondly, even though I am young, some people say I should have been born in the 1950s-1960s, as I have very old-school values. For 99% of modern people, it does not matter whether the phone is really incredible; they will say: if this phone does not support WhatsApp, then this is a bad phone. Hereby I wanted to pinpoint the issue of a 3rd-party interest, which was very easy to establish ca. 10 years ago due to a multitude of different mobile OS's, but today the situation is different.

  • JAVA JAVA
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    @Max the Doctor I hope there is still a possibility.. so we have to do what we can. I am with you. Pal

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    Hi @Max the Doctor,

    Well it's great to virtually meet you, thanks to you and the other Delight team members for all your hard work.

    Thanks for the link to the updated firmware, I hadn't realised that the developer team had changed. I have to admit that I never tried any custom firmwares on my N8 yet, but I should try and find chance to experience this.

    I remember that even though after ^3 Nokia stopped publicly releasing Symbian source code all the phones came with the statement about open source in them and that we could write and ask for this. Did you or anyone ever do that for Belle FP2? What did you get?

    I see that Facebook blocked your Delight videos. DId you use any music in them? Maybe that is why - they automatically scan videos for music and if they think copyright is being broken then they block them (I think).

    Is SIStore one of your apps? I do use that on my N8 (when it gets used). I wondered why it didn't include binaries of all the old Nokia apps for Symbian (the ones that still work!), but maybe this was for copyright reasons.

    The fact that there are still people like you working on the custom ROMs for Symbian phones and (in comparison) the custom Android versions for current Nokia phones are poor or non-existent, shows just how much Nokia lost by abandoning its own OSes and going with Windows and then Android. Very sad.

    In fact I just had a look on XDA (not comprehensive, but representative) and most devices have nothing (nothing at all!), others have just unofficial TWRP and LineageOS. The most successful appears to be the 6.1+ (surprisingly) and other similar phones.

    Battery life on my N8 was always great in comparison to anything I used since. It's one of the reasons I am never impressed by HMD's "signature two day battery life" (which is even missing from some devices which can't last that long).

    So did you rebuild the EKA2 kernel from ^3 with any modifications, or just reuse the stock Belle FP2/Refresh kernel for each model phone? Or did the EKA2 kernel not change in that time and the only changes were in the rest of Symbian? Does Delight include any source (modified or not) from the ^3 release or is Delight more about changes to configuration files?

    I often wonder why nobody picked up the EKA2 kernel and reused it for anything else. It's clearly a very efficient real-time OS and it would make a great core to build a mobile OS on (even ignoring or forgetting the rest of the Symbian stuff). Maybe it was because it was just too tricky to programme for? I think I remember reading that it used some non-standard C extensions for it's implementation of real-time and multitasking, I might be wrong though. Even if EKA2 is not really reusable it must surely be inspiration for others to build real-time multitasking microkernel with... maybe it has inspired others but for copyright reasons they don't want to say so! πŸ˜†

    I know I've mentioned copyright a lot but that's because I recall that Nokia were always quite sensitive about that with Symbian. Do you know who owns the copyright for Symbian now? Is it still Nokia, the Symbian Foundation, Microsoft, someone else?

    Anyway, great to chat about Symbian stuff, thanks for coming by, I hope you can keep coming here from time to time πŸ˜ƒ

    Cheers πŸ™‚

  • JAVA JAVA
    ✭✭✭  / 

    Finally @Max the Doctor .what you think about bringing her back from the death

  • Max the Doctor Max the Doctor
    ✭✭  / 

    Hi @madbilly !

    I am not 100% sure who is the owner of the latest Symbian Belle sources from Nokia. Some folks say it is Microsoft, the others mention Accenture. But the one thing I am sure about is no one of them is going to give the code. The original Delight team started the petition regarding the release of the source code for fans, whereas Mr. Alshahawy initiated another petition so as not to close Nokia Store and maintain it further for the developers and users. The end of those both we know :)

    Some people say Microsoft wiped away the latest Symbian sources, but personally, I do not believe in it. I think they are still on hold somewhere on storage...

    On another level, this is very bad that Facebook blocked all those posts since they carried a lot of meaningful questions and replies on how to use Symbian Nokia smartphones nowadays. There were no videos at all, just some screenshots and text posts. The real reason why Facebook deleted my posts is complicated to find. Again, certain people said that it probably was copyright infringement (but it is hard to believe in this hypothesis because back in 2011-2013 there were hundreds of CFWs published everywhere in the Internet, and none of them disappeared). The more likely reason is my call not to throw away old Symbian smartphones and not to buy new Androids or iPhones, but continue to use Symbian efficiently (e.g. no Android will make music sound so deep like it is on Symbian phones with proper modifications). And those days my website was something like a landing page, pointing the majority of links to my Facebook. I guess that was the main reason for blacklisting my posts.

    Yes, I am a coordinator of the SIStore project. Why does SIStore not include working old apps from Nokia? It does! Maybe you searched only superficially...

    HMD's "signature two day battery life" (which is even missing from some devices which can't last that long)

    Ha-ha-ha-ha... Well, that's apparently not impressing. But short battery life can be stipulated by something else. You know, Google Play is generally speaking a junkheap. If you installed some thingies from there, then they can be automatically added to autostart, or the apps themselves do not power efficiently. If this is the case, delete everything from the installed 3rd parties, leaving an empty stock firmware. But if the stock firmware continues to drain battery for a day or two, then this is a shame on HMD. Battery life is dependent on so many things that I might not mention them all. But in general, incorrect applications caching or unnecessary autostart, bad RAM distribution and release, wrong CPU force or time configuration, badly chosen theme elements and graphical renderers, finalising by company-made apps which are heavy on RAM, and here we have 1-2 days battery lifetime. To make matters worse, then it will be a double shame on HMD since Android is open-source, unlike Symbian Belle is. Platform development is much more than only coding. For example, a cute file manager interface appeared in my head when I was doing a flow cytometry experiment :)

    I left the kernel intact since any modifications introduced to it can super dangerous, without possibility to recover the phone. Delight is a mixture of both modified sources from Symbian^3 PR and current files changes (not only configurations but also actualisation of binaries).

    It took some time for me to answer last time as my reply did not appear here for several days, I do not know why.

  • Max the Doctor Max the Doctor
    ✭✭  / 

    Hi @JAVA !

    Who is "her"? Symbian?

    For featured phones, the prerequisites are absolutely the same as for smartphones. If you remember old phones running something before Symbian was even released, they had primitive web browsers and the Internet could have been accessed somehow.

    Nevertheless, if you imagine some kind of the featured phone which do not have access to the Internet at all, then the one thing I am sure of - implementation of an age-old open-source Symbian would be much easier in this case.

  • JAVA JAVA
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    That's right πŸ‘. She is my little angel ❀️

  • JAVA JAVA
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  • Max the Doctor Max the Doctor
    ✭✭  / 

    @JAVA

    If I summarise everything I have written so far, then in theory, there might be a little chance for her. But in practice, it is not a one-man work.

    If I had been a CEO of the solid company which produces top-notch quality phones, then I would have definitely considered Symbian once again. And this idea would work out 100% because there are so many people around the world searching for something else besides Android and iOS. But current alternatives are too inferior in functional comparing to Symbian (a judgement based on average opinion of those who still stick to old Symbian because they are not satisfied by Blackberry, Kai, and Sailfish in terms of offered features).

    The keywords here are "solid" and "quality".

  • JAVA JAVA
    ✭✭✭  / 

    I totally agreed with you. @Max the Doctor . I am the one started this discussion and we got this πŸ’ͺ far. And companies like Huwaei is searching for a new Os I think. They have a chance to save her .welll we try our best. Before my death I want to see a symbian OS featured phone. 😍😍 We can keep this discussion. And more people will listen to it. And memeber like @mad@madbilly . Are here for help. He is going to be a super user. When he reach there HMD will respond.then we can present our idea to @Hmd .@HMDLaura

  • Evgeny - evetrov Evgeny - evetrov
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    Sorry, didnt read ALL comments.

    I hope Simbian wil be great again and want to buy Simbian phone again.

    Simbian with touchscreen does not compete with Android, iOS, even Windows Phone. I consider that Simbian its cool only for button phones (feature phones).

    Simbian does not need in cool hardware. It work on 500 mHz and 64 mb RAM very fast. And it work with 1500 mah battery 1+ week!!!! For example KaiOS (Android 4) 2000 mAh - work 3 days.

    And Simbian is not primitive OS. It have documentation, Operation system API, background working applications. And Simbian 9.3 have HTTPS!!!

    I have Nokia Ngage QD with Simbian 6. The best OS ever i seen. Nokia with 104 mhz, 16mb RAM was very fast, no lags, 3D games. Super!


    There is only one problem with Simbian: browsers, web. Modern web have many new features, powerful browsers and many many many JavaScript. Simplify versions website helps or browser like Opera.

    I hope enyone can upgrade simbian 9.3 for modern hardware, microchips and create documentation for every developers.

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