Calling for a global money refund for customers that purchased Nokia 7.2
HMD Nokia Ban and blocked my previous user and deleted all my comments and discussions. They do everything to hide the truth so it is very important that you copy this text and share everywhere on social networks and of course press the like / agree button. The conversation in this discussion must be left at the top of the list. Do not let the trolls open false discussions in order to lower this discussion to the bottom of the list. Every 3 days you will enter this discussion and write something to bounce it to the top. If we unite they will not be able to silence us all. Today is the date 22/6/2021 and the security version in Nokia 7.2 is still on the month of March 2021. Delay of 3 months - and it will get worse! We have not yet received Android 11 although very soon there will be phones from other manufacturers with Android 12. HMD Nokia deceived and betrayed us. They do not give us quality service and do not care at all about us. That's why I urge everyone not to buy any more Nokia products in the future. HMD Nokia phones has a lot hardware and software problems. For example, my GPS doesn't work from day one. I didn't want to send it for repair because I thought an upgrade to Android 10 would fix the problem but it didn't happen and then was a general closure in my country (ISRAEL) because the Covid19 and I had already given up and the warranty was over and the problem persists. They employ trolls who respond on this community website (you can easily identify them because they underestimate our money and our claims about real problems on this phone and they hint that the problems are our fault because it's only on our phone. And they always claim that everything is fine on their phone. Why do they not open new discussions of their own? Because they are trying to maintain HMD Nokia's reputation). The same trolls who work for HMD Nokia and respond on this site lied rudely and claimed against me that I work for a competing manufacturer. For those who remember my previous user, I previously posted screenshots from my HMD Nokia 7.2 and also did not support any other specific manufacturer. But not anymore. Since I do not want you to fall into the trap with screwed manufacturers I will share my personal opinion: I think the most reliable phone manufacturers are Google and Samsung. Of course you alone will decide which phone manufacturer to buy with your money. Just do not buy the phone on the first day it is available for sale. Wait at least 3 months to make sure there is no global fault.
welcome back Lior, this behavior of HMD made me a little scared :|5
I totally agree with u. I have two nokia 7.2 sadly. Both of them have screen retention issue and even the chargers of both the devices is of no more use. I bought new chargers today. My device is just 6 months old. The hardware quality they are providing like the LCD is just worst because of the screen retention.
Apart from the hardware, the software is so buggy. Camera gets disabled after every 4 - 5 hours. Like what is this behaviour? This phone was released 2 years ago and HMD can't even fix a bug of camera? Camera is the main part of the phone. How can they ignore it.?
No updates or upgrades are given to us since the last 3 months... Whats the use of AndroidOne? Buggy, non up to date and non secure? Neither the GPS works.
If they want to, they can totally fix these issues by updates. These are no difficult things for a developer. But they want us to suffer that's why they are not fixing the issues.
Every company tries to make their phone bug free. But HMD only increases the bugs and neither fixes the old one. Making the person regret for buying their device.
This is my last device from HMD, never ever gonna purchase their device again...
Better to throw the money in the bin than to purchase their device.8
Hi Lior, I was suspirsed reading that your account is no longer accessible. Well, yeah indeed that's true. However, there's a little bit that I want to add:
- HMD officials didn't delete your account. It is most likely a judgement error on the part of one of the superusers. And I'm sorry that such a thing happened.
- HMD doesn't have paid people here to say good about their phones. If somebody praises them, it is their personal opinion and we should all respect that too.
Sadly I can't reinstate the account since all content was also deleted. But i'll definitely pass some feedback among superusers that they should be more careful when they take such a step.6
You can't recover it? Does this mean that HMD/Nokia does not back up data? That sounds unimaginable... Has HMD also deleted all security patches, so that no current ones can be rolled out? 🤣🤯3
I'm only a user with mod access. I am not a community administrator. Hence I do not know what content is backed up and how often.
Even then, per my general experience of websites and forums, the data so lives in databases and databases are backed up at regular intervals (daily/weekly or something else). It won't be possible to export the content of a single user from an old database backup and import it again into the latest database.
And in case somebody decides to restore the database to an older backup, all fresh content (everything posed after that backup was taken) has to be given up. That's the tradeoff and I think not an ideal solution in the current case.
About your updates and patches, I have said this before as well:
HMD's updates are rolled out by the ODMs who worked on the devices. As such, the 6.2/7.2 were produced by LongCheer and it is them who are responsible for the maintenance and OS updates to the device under contract with hmd. I do not know for sure as to where the current problem about the missing updates is. It could be that the ODM is facing some internal issues with human resources, or it could be related to some dispute to the contract between the two parties over finances or other reasons. We do not know for sure. But what we know is that hmd can barely do much if the ODM delays the supply of updates.
So, in case such a dispute happened, hmd might be under the process of fixing it or moving the development process to another party (or even internally as they have a team in Shenzhen & Tampere). And that's how the updates are missing. I know an end-user has no reason to make such an evaluation since they are dealing with hmd and the problems are for hmd to fix. I just tried to explain a possible situation that could be leading to the lack of updates in recent months. Such issues are quite common with new companies (and startups) where cash is often limited and contracts are often breached.6
We, or rather I, simply state: HMD/Nokia has and currently still advertises: Updates to major releases up to two years after market launch and security updates up to three years. This is also necessary to be part of the Android One program. HMD has violated this with several devices. Thus, there is a material defect! A feature that was promised at the time of purchase is not fulfilled! Everything else does not interest me as a customer!8
thank you so much for your clear explanation, these are what customers like us need to hear, although the problem's not solved now. Sometimes people need an explanation for a possible situation for the delay, need some communication since we only know to scream because everything we received was just a delay announcement and waiting but not hearing any news after that. We know every company keeps working through the pandemic (my country Vietnam is suffering from this) but at least we need some clear and kindly communication like this. Once again, thanks for your try.😄
should we need some extend in Android One program up to 3.5 or 4 years, to cover these times of blank waiting. 😂6
That is right. From a consumer's standpoint, they have nothing to do with what internal problems hmd has. They should get what hmd has promised, as was mentioned during the buying/marketing process. I agree with that remark.
And the problem becomes even bigger because hmd fails to communicate properly. But maybe that's right for them too. If they come out and say that we are having financial problems or that our supply chain is disrupted, it will be hot news in the media which will once again tarnish the brand's image and possibly future sales and marketing of hmd. I am no business expert, but all that I can see is that they are in a tight situation right now. I hope they manage to revive and sustain themselves. Because just in case they come out and say... We are done. We can't do it anymore, we as a consumer won't be able to do much anyways other than losing a company that tried to bring a change.4
Do you think the current way is better, which is to say nothing at all? I think that this destroys more than telling the customers publicly what is going on. Anyone who currently has an 8.1 or 7.2 - I don't know about other HMD devices (the 7 Plus gets no more updates) - would be pretty stupid in the current situation if he buys another HMD device and receives even fewer updates or HMD secretly goes bankrupt and then no more updates come...!
The circle of buyers for Nokia phones does not seem so big, so I should not bump exactly these buyers on the head and deliver very late/no updates. Then consequently even less buy a device from HMD/Nokia!
Maybe there is/was a pyramid scheme at HMD: newly sold devices financed the updates for old devices. This has collapsed. The pandemic may have exacerbated that
The user experience is very, very bad for me for a year!6
Nokia 7.2 👎👎👎👎👎👎7
I've never suffered like that before like I'm suffering after buying this....5
Hi, can you provide sources for ODMs providing updates for Nokia phones? I mainly bought a nokia 7.2 to avoid Chinese phones due to concerns over privacy, if Chinese ODMs not only made this phone but also maintains software then I'm really doubting if I should even use this phone. I am probably better off getting a Pixel phone or an iPhone instead.4
I think we can try to run civil cases and refund requests after 6th of September 2021. Because Nokia 7.2 release was on 6th of September 2019 and there will be clear violation of false advertising, until that they still have the 2 year gap not ended.4
I cannot provide you with any clear documents stating that because we will never find a copy of the contract anywhere 😆. That is just my conclusion based on my observations over the years. Not trusting China on anything is a personal choice that I will leave you to think about, however, definitely, Apple and Google also have their phones developed and manufactured in China. Samsung's most of the software teams are in China as well. So, because I closely follow hmd/Nokia, I have this observation. Most of the others will not, and the same is also true for Apple or Google. People generally do not pay that close attention to such things. That's why Motorola as a brand gets more trust around it than Lenovo, both of which are owned by Lenovo only. Speaking of issues in Google's phones, just please have a look at Google Product forums for Pixel before you assume that their software or hardware or warranty (RMA) is flawless. And mind you, Google's forums are very aggressive in moving/clearing the negatives, we don't have it here (except the unofficial mistake that happened with Lior's account). Apple is another league, pay the price and get the premium experience and support, pretty simple!
Since Google's and Apple's phones are developed in China too, the companies/factories that develop the hardware definitely have access to the software code for testing, deployment, improvements, and prototyping. I'm certain that FIH Mobile is an ODM for Google's phones. Apple mostly doesn't use ODMs and only contracts OEM activities which are less risky than ODM. Anyways, factories flash the devices and do FQC. They can easily inject something into the project (hardware or software). So, all in all, you have to trust it somewhere. As per myself, just because hmd employs a Chinese vendor doesn't automatically make it a negative. Otherwise, you will have a very hard time finding a phone which does not make use of something from China.
hmd would be having teams that monitor the source code for anything fishy and take required actions on the vendor. The vendors will also lose trust and business if they are caught doing such a thing. Hence, I do not have many trust issues there.
I do not think their current actions are better, but I definitely know that media is quite toxic these days. A competitor can very easily influence and fund campaigns to defame the other. All they will need is a small thing to get started and then they will make a mountain out of a molehill.
The 8.1 served reasonably well if you ask me. And the current situation was expected to arrive at some point because hmd no longer deals with that vendor since 2018 (or early 2019). So, the reduced business and the pending payments towards them have the natural impact that we are seeing today. The pandemic affected hmd's cash position a lot since their sales channels were mostly offline and markets remained closed for way too long while hmd was also transitioning and didn't have a lot of products to sell. I am not very frustrated with the 8.1 because it served well for over 2 years at least. It still does overall and the security patches although marketed are of no priority to me as long as critical times are taken care of and they are being taken care of on the 8.1.
The case with 7.2 is different. When hmd switched vendors (ODMs), I think that was a pretty hard phase for hmd. Your existing vendor is unwilling to do business with you and you are on the lookout for new ones, you do not have much experience with them and you do not enjoy a lot of credit due to non-existent previous relationship/trust. The 7.2 inherently has certain hardware/software issues (such as the one with the display or the camera framework. I also think that the emmc is slower because the 7 Plus with the same CPU does better benchmarking) which I think never made the user experience wholesome from the start.
The good thing is that hmd isn't further utilizing the vendor that developed the 6.2/7.2 duo and the vendor is only fulfilling previous orders. I can also see that the new devices (definitely the X series) have a lot of things changed. They possibly went back to the drawing board and thought about their strategy (and hence came with 3 years of OS upgrades and also 3 years of warranty). The software also (I believe) is being handled by a hmd team in SZ and not the vendor this time which means there will be more control. So... a lot of changes, some positive. And changes happen a lot in startups :D They at least seem to be learning from their mistakes. It is just that they hold a very big brand name which has everybody's expectations pretty high.
I know what I have said has more to do from the business perspective. And it doesn't make any sense from the consumer/customer perspective.. A customer has spent money on the device and wants to have a good experience that fulfills the promises made by the brand. Consumers do not have to care about what happens within the company. All they should (and will) care about is how is the product. I am an enthusiast and a business graduate, hence I have interest more in how things work behind the scenes than just the products.7
Perhaps a refurbished one Lior, a specimen that has been thoroughly checked? :)
Good to have you back, also because I still use the GPS tools you recommended over the past year.
Learning a lot from this thread too, for example you explain at the start that you waited with getting - what really looks like a hardware issue to me - GPS fixed, after upgrading from Android Pie to Android 10 and then basically couldn't get it fixed because of the lockdown. I hope this will be sorted, either by the retailer that sold you the 7.2 or by HMD itself!
Then the other thing about OMDs and the troublesome relationship brands like Nokia can have with them. My previous phone, a General Mobile 4G, was also built by Longcheer. It had been on the market for about 6 months when I bought it and received Google patches for about a year and a half + an upgrade from Android Marshmallow to Nougat. Monthly security patches sometimes came with pretty long delays (would get warnings popping up that I wasn't patched), and the extra memory card issues (format as internal is not a clever idea) are quite familiar!
Now I understand there is a conflict/end of the relationship with Longcheer? I really wonder what that means for further software support. I am much more interested in the monthly security patches than in Android 11 which is still on the roadmap for this phone.5
(this is a hiccup - sorry)2
I seriously cannot believe that neither my Nokia 7.2 is receiving security updates nor Android uogrades. Phone is full of bugs, hardware is full of issues and still Nokia isn't doing a thing to improve it...9
I don't care. In Germany, there is a slogan: "If you lie once, you won't be believed," and that is exactly what HMD/Nokia has done too often. Wherever I can, I prevent a purchase of devices from HMD/Nokia. Even if I don't have that much work to do, because who buys devices from Nokia anymore. 😎 I think that they (HMD) will simply continue to not deliver (software).
Idealists or Windows Mobile switchers bought devices from HMD/Nokia in the past. That is over. You can see that everywhere. My Pixel 5 gets updates or even new features (e.g. "Astromode" for photos) as promptly as my previous Lumias (930 & 950). And I don't want to miss that anymore.5
Hi @lior levi new account , I think @Joost is right. In general iPhones are expensive and so is their repair costs. So, a refurbished iPhone can be a good choise as long as the quality is good. That because the iPhone Mini thing that Apple makes is not something I like. It is too small and basic to be of any usefulness or a regular user who has used bigger phones.
Hi @Joost, fair enough. I might be wrong but General Mobile would have likely not guaranteed your software updates, whereas HMD did. So, hmd needs to have a different agreement with their vendor (longcheer) and while in the case of General Mobile, it is good for however long they maintained it, in case of hmd 3-year support is a sales promise that they should fulfil by whatever means otherwise they may be found guilty if somebody files a class action lawsuit. Android updates are (or at least they used to be) in the Android ecosystem and hmd came here as somebody who will give an alternative via regular updates. Now if they fail just their core promise, I do not see many USPs left in their products of today.
The issues with adoptable storage on Android has forever existed and is something where Google is at fault and not the vendor. Google has never managed to make adoptable storage work flawlessly. That's why most vendors try to avoid such a solution on their devices. It is better to not give such an option and leave the device with lesser storage instead of giving it and then leaving the user to lose their critical userdata at any point randomly.
The opinion about a possible conflict with the vendor is something that I am forming out of my observation of the things revolving around hmd. As such it may or may not be fully right. I can't say how the support will continue further... but I still cannot forget that hmd has already exited most of the retail business in China and they left all devices with no further maintenance with immediate effect. So, none of the devices (new or old) got any updates after the July 2019 Android security patch. That said, hmd never advertised or promised updates in China and hence they had no legal complications from that. The case of their global portfolio is different and hence I feel that hmd will sort things by either changing the vendor or resolving the conflicts or just absorb the software job in-house. Only time will tell how things go.
Hi @BratwurstmitSenf, you are right and I think we also have a similar slogan and examples in India as well. One where a man used to shout every day that lion came and when the public would come out to save him, he used to laugh at them that he made them a fool. Then one fine day, the lion came and killed him and nobody came out after his shouts because they assumed he will be fooling them yet again. So, yeah lies and broken promises break the trust and that is definitely happening to hmd these days.
I do not want you to change your opinion or have a softer corner for them. I do not use a hmd phone as my primary phone as of now. I was just doing some business evaluations. And for that matter, I think it is always a risky job when we buy something from a small company or a startup. We never know how the business will be a few years down the line.
And definitely, the best phone to get the latest and greatest from Google is by having a phone made by Google only. I do not even like the fact that hmd is only trying to live off Google's stuff (a lot of which Google limits for exclusive use on its own smartphones) and does not try to build an own wholesome ecosystem where the hardware and software complement each other and the user gets access to a number of exclusive features that will also help hmd to retain the customer. Because as of today, any phone one buys has access to the same Google apps anyways + a lot more.4
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