Does Nokia have any intent to bring back digi-compass & introduce L5-/S-b satnav-systems like IRNSS?

maazkalim
maazkalim ✭✭
in Software and Specs

I wish to know that whether myself having to wait for 2½+ years for NavIC™ was all for naught as apps like GPSTest® and GNSSTest® have already confirmed beyond any reasonable-doubt that in spite of perfect hardware-support, HMD® Global( branded as Nokia® Mobile) is simply unwilling to even support utilitarian basics like satellite-navigation systems like IRNSS™( known popularly as NavIC™)?


I was disappointed to see that it wasn't when I finally purchased my Nokia® 5.4™ (6GB RAM, 64GB ROM) which was, frankly, for the price-range: A downgrade from my realme® 2 Pro™ (6GB RAM, 64GB ROM) when it comes to specs.

This is in straight contradiction to numerous press-reports which weren't sought for correction by HMD® Global, nor those tech-news outlets have done so out of their own accord — to date. Although given my life-experience, I knew better than to trust these reports — i.e. precisely what they expect their readers of. And hence, I was reticent anyways since at least Nokia® Mobile, to its credit, hadn't claimed IRNSS support on its websites.

Nevertheless, I sucked it up since I wanted to have my first NavIC supported phone with brand of the legacy as reliable as Nokia®: Alas.. All I found were unnecessary upgrades and updates hogging my phone's ROM( internal memory) simply because my brand-new phone in mid-July 2021 came pre-installed with only Android® Pie™, apparently.

So after the warranty-preserving way of app-testing( I'm a techie, if not a ‘geek’) had all but ensured that those were falsehoods benefiting Nokia®, I started looking around the Web, as I generally do for any unanswerable problem I face.

So it was my possibly worst of disappointments that for a global community like this online forum, nobody save for Mr "@Philip_05" is/was in fact interested in enquiring about such a utilitarian feature. Given my life-experience dealing with Big Corporates, lemme assure to anybody wondering that reaching-out to so-called "tech support" didn't help me in anything whatsoever since while the Indian customer care didn't have any idea which beast is named either of "IRNSS" or "NavIC", whereas their international counterparts were quite dodgy( read elusive) and amongst 4 of them, they went only as far as confirming 101 about something called NavIC™( albeit, they got it a bit wrong) but relied on mechanical-replies otherwise to avoid answering in either of ‘aye’ or ‘no’. All of that occurred in the span of few weeks.(

I can attach every chat record I have, except for calls since like quite a lot of forum — this website doesn't tolerate hosting audio-file formats, no?)

HMD® Global also took out eCompass support while sticking with the confounding decision to continue the legacy of( get this! ) wired-headset based "FM radio" in the day-&-age of OTT streaming platforms like TuneIn®. Like.. SERIOUSLY? FM radio is more necessary for human-survival purposes than an e-Compass? (H/t @PtheJay & @BattleStar) So is even Nokia® 3.4™ not gonna support something as primal as Digital Compass in spite of media reporting that it does have a magnetometer, as well?

So what's really took my by undesirable surprise that everybody is simply obsessed with a single thing: "Android 11 update" over here and elsewhere across the 'pop-Interweb' multiverse. In other words, a very generic concern which also applies to competitors who have also admirably started supporting something as basic as IRNSS™. Are not just Indian residents, but even the global-community here is *that* old-fashioned?

Hopefully I don't need to remind anybody of forum's social-conduct guidelines in not just civility( if not ‘politeness’) but even to stay strictly on-topic, which is: Phones' support for newer satellite-navigation segments and cardinal-navigation support.

So.. Should I start looking for getting refund of my Nokia® 5.4, given Nokia® has no plans whatsoever to start supporting these primal features?

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Comments

  • Philip_05
    Philip_05 ✭✭✭

    Hi maazkalim,

    Yes you are right, HMD Global should be support NavIC in Nokia 5.4 because onboard is SoC Snapdragon 662 and this chip support NavIC.

    This is strange, Indian smartphone market is very important for HMD Global and Nokia, but I can not understand why HMD Global no give support for Indian satellite navigation system NavIC, this is bargaining card together with advert to buy Nokia smartphones.

    Similar situation was with European Galileo a few years ago, more Nokia smartphones support Galileo now.

    One band only L5 receiver this is really new thing. Better than old L1/E1 only and cheaper than dual band L1/E1 + L5/E5. Why Nokia smartphones can not be precursor on the market?


    Nokia 3.4 have on board accelerometer (G-sensor) and gyroscope sensor so I think should be no problem support e-Compass. In addition SoC Snapdragon 460 also support NavIC. HMD Global get on with it :-)

  • maazkalim
    maazkalim ✭✭

    Hey "@IndiaFan", Mr "@tim.m" & Mr "@dipankar paul" respectively: Any care to at least acknowledge the proportionality of this..


    ...Seemingly easily, and perfectly-avoidable bane?

    I mean.. I don't care for "Android® 11" timeline and stuff, since I understand that my phone is supposed to work fine with[out], but the lack of such essential features in supposed "smart"phones, and worst, for entirely-avoidable factors.


    Or did my 4½+ weeks of agony from Walmart®'s Indian retail e-commerce business was all for naught, after having waited very, very, very patiently for 2½+ years instead of opting for rivals who do hear and listen — at the very least?

    I mean.. I could go make threats like every rando to keep the intensity of my grump as unsubtle as it gets, however..

  • Roobaroo
    Roobaroo ✭✭

    So is even Nokia® 3.4™ not gonna support something as primal as Digital Compass in spite of media reporting that it does have a magnetometer, as well?

    Nokia 3.4 does not feature a magnetometer. Among the current phones, only the Nokia 8.3 5G, Nokia X10, Nokia X20, and Nokia XR20 support e-Compass. The G and C series phones miss out on that.

    Also, Nokia XR20 is possibly the first Nokia phone that comes with NavIC and QZSS (Japan) support.

  • maazkalim
    maazkalim ✭✭
    https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/comment/194432#Comment_194432

    Ahh..


    I know, right?


    And even though I never even realised that Nokia® took “years” to support GALILEO®.

    So while that's [somewhat ]reassuring revelation that they don't discriminate when it comes to nationalism/regionalism or any such ethnically-linked sentiment.


    That means, given your track-record, I shall eschew the Laws of Scientific-Reasoning this once to not ask you to substantiate that claim and shall take it at face-value.


    However.. India's diametrically different. Not just it's the largest open-market, let alone all of economically-defined Europe combined — but to risk myself to spill some hard-facts here:

    It's also the national-market whose society is rife with patriotic/nationalistic fervour. And they're expressing it more than ever before. So given "Make In India®" and whatchamacallit, I can't figure-out a good marketing-strategy over why they don't advertise their connections to Indian "indigenousness" and yes, also a deeply-enigmatic business-strategy where not supporting an indigenously-developed satellite-navigation system would help them carve out some sustainable edge/niché than their [arch-]rivals.



    And yes, if Nokia® 3.4™ genuinely has magnetometer, as some news outlets have already confirmed since long, then: Why on Earth would Nokia® not support it? A-gain.. To accommodate wired-headset powered "FM radio"?



    And last but not the least:

    Given you sound like a citizen of India, from a world-citizen resident in undistorted-territories of the Lipublic of India to you wishing: Belated Happy 75th Dependence Day.

  • maazkalim
    maazkalim ✭✭
    https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/comment/194470#Comment_194470

    Ahh...

    Thanks for your concise, and above all, civil reply which didn't go too much in a "straight-shooting" range, either. 😉


    So that was just-another misinformation by number of tech-journalism outlets which also went uncorrected by HMD® Global?

    I see.

    And when you mention “...G and C series..”: I assume you're strictly referring to ranges( ‘models’ in colloquial parlance, but not in Nokia® Mobile's official vocabulary) of smartphones which are christened as ‘G..’ and ‘C..’ respectively, no?(

    If so, I can't see how either of 3.4™ and 5.4 fit into those boxes.)


    Last but not the least: Ahh..

    As in, you're speculating out-of-box support[ in XR20™] — eh?



    Regardless, may you also dare to share your opinion over Nokia® not supporting[ utility] features? Especially in light of them supporting wired-headset based FM radio in the day-and-age of streaming generally giving superior coverage?

    Thanks again.

  • Philip_05
    Philip_05 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2021

    Support Indian Regional Navigation Satellite System NavIC in mobile processors (SoC) is relative new thing.

    First mobile processors supporting NavIC are

    Qualcomm Snapdragon 865 (enabled after software update), 870 5G, 720G, 662, 460

    MediaTek Dimensity 700, 810, 900, 1000

    Samsung Exynos 980

    Not always new version SoC support NavIC, check before buy smartphone

    Maybe some day I make a list of all mobile processors to support NavIC :-)


    This is strange why Nokia 3.4 have not a magnetometer feature 🤔

    @Roobaroo do you know Nokia 5.4 support e-compass?, 5.4 have accelerometer (G-sensor) and gyroscope as well

  • maazkalim
    maazkalim ✭✭
    https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/comment/194630#Comment_194630

    Ahh..


    While I appreciate your "not-so-exhaustive" list, unfortunately they're of no use to me personally anymore as by the time I firstly replied to your original reply here, I had already got my phone replaced with new unit( as you could check-out in my comments history, the other, unrelated thread where you aren't present) 3 days ago before responding so given 1-week guarantee aka "1-week Returns" period, the chance for me to escape..


    ...Had expired a day right before your latest-reply and my preceding-reply, to "@Roobaroo" here.

    And this might be trivial for you but Thanks to myself getting hoodwinked for exchanging my previous realme® 2 Pro™ at a decent-rate, I had already suffered for 4½+ weeks in entirety by buying my Nokia 5.4™ with the online-"marketplace", and about 3 consecutive weeks of which went straight into getting my delivered-unit of Nokia 5.4™ either replaced, or lately, refunded.

    Therefore, I can't afford to fight tooth-&-nail with them all for a déjà vu, yet-another time.( Especially since unlike in previous cases, it wasn't their shenanigans to plead for policy "exception", ergo my case is effectively-dead.)

    Not anymore.

    HMD® Global has got to live upto the legacy of Nokia® brand instead of faithfully 'adapting' the stereotypes of corruption in Indian public-sector. At least this gave me the option to badger them with stern-feedback, which I was studiously-avoiding Thanks to indescribable-agony caused by Nokia®'s "special" third-party, Walmart®-owned retailer.

    And since I presume you mustn't be interested to know more about my misery with that multinational-owned retail "marketplace", moving on..

    Amusing that save for Qualcomm®, none of those chipmakers have their support for IRNSS™ covered by the press at large, eh?

  • Roobaroo
    Roobaroo ✭✭

    Hello @maazkalim. Apologies for the delayed response as I was off the forum during the last week.

    So that was just-another misinformation by number of tech-journalism outlets which also went uncorrected by HMD® Global?

    Yes, I have observed this a few times. What probably happens is that some largely-followed site makes a mistake about a specification and then the other sites that refer the particular site also publish the same details without verifying any of it. So, the string keeps going. And I do not know if it is possible for HMD Global to go through each article about its products and services on the internet.

    Since this was about the e-compass/magnetometer thing, I quickly went through the specifications of the Nokia phones to have a bit more clarity and this is what I observed:

    • The Nokia 1-series never came with a magnetometer.
    • Excluding the Nokia 2.1, all the first and second (x.1) generation phones have magnetometer.
    • However, the things changed with the third/fourth generation (x.2) phones from the Nokia 2, 3, and 4-series as they did not support e-compass.
    • They also removed it from the Nokia 5-series beginning with the 5.3 and then the 5.4.
    • So, at the end, HMD Global kind of reserved the e-compass feature only for the Nokia 6, 7, 8, and 9-series phones.

    And when you mention “...G and C series..”: I assume you're strictly referring to ranges( ‘models’ in colloquial parlance, but not in Nokia® Mobile's official vocabulary) of smartphones which are christened as ‘G..’ and ‘C..’ respectively, no?(

    If so, I can't see how either of 3.4™ and 5.4 fit into those boxes.)

    HMD Global's new naming scheme for the Nokia phones is as follows:

    • The previous C and 1-series was merged into the new C-series.
    • The Nokia 2, 3, 4, and 5-series was included in the new G-series.
    • And all the higher ranked series (6, 7, 8, and 9) became a part of the X-series.

    As of now, only the X-series phones are getting the support for e-compass.

    As in, you're speculating out-of-box support[ in XR20™] — eh?

    Yes.

    Regardless, may you also dare to share your opinion over Nokia® not supporting[ utility] features? Especially in light of them supporting wired-headset based FM radio in the day-and-age of streaming generally giving superior coverage?

    In the last two years, HMD Global has made quite a few questionable exclusion of basic features (absence of 5 GHz Wi-Fi, etc.) in its mid-range and budget offerings and I believe that it is just a part of its cost-cutting measures, which I am not really a fan of.

    Cheers.

  • Roobaroo
    Roobaroo ✭✭

    Hello @Philip_05,

    @Roobaroo do you know Nokia 5.4 support e-compass?, 5.4 have accelerometer (G-sensor) and gyroscope as well

    Unfortunately, the Nokia 5.4 does not support e-compass as it misses out on the magnetometer. From 2020, HMD Global kind of limited the availability of magnetic sensors to the Nokia 6, 7, 8, and 9-series phones, which is basically the Nokia X-series as per the new naming scheme.

  • maazkalim
    maazkalim ✭✭

    Update: 'Course, given the perennially-active zeitgeist around the software-upgrades..


    The Android® 11 arrived and welp!


    Forget about NavIC™ aka IRNSS, they didn't even fix the ostensible software-bug which was the topic of only other subject-matter I've addressed in this community. As if these were just not enough.. Apparently, HMD® Global deliberately excised the key-feature additions in this stock Android® build which rival-manufactures who develop their own custom [G]UI based Android builds and have far greater market-shares across territories have it in their devices for years-&-years.( Confirmed by the absence of features mentioned in the Android® 11 "get-started" notification I received.) I wanted at least one of the features as it require not just installing apps, but depending upon the build, sometimes even root-unlock.( Had already installed an app in my replaced-unit.) And hence, the only changes are cosmetic( look-&-feel) and the only ones which are utilitarian is simply more routes to access the long pre-existing features.



    It's as if Nokia® is consciously being as obnoxiously-rapacious as it possibly can.

  • maazkalim
    maazkalim ✭✭

    P.S. I cross-posted my latest-reply on the "Android 11 roadmap" thread by Mr @dipankar paul by adding an additional-prose about difficulties I faced since upgrading, which I intended to post here but missed, because per my own rules, it would be off-topic to this thread here but even after 36+ hours( at the very least), my comment is apparently stuck in moderation with no notice of whether it has been rejected — let alone why it won't get approved.


    I've even started getting email-notices of comments posted afterwards in that thread, but ostensibly, neither of Mr "@tim.m" or "@IndiaFan" care enough.

  • singhnsk
    singhnsk Super User

    Hi @maazkalim, I've approved your comment.

  • maazkalim
    maazkalim ✭✭
    https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/comment/195199#Comment_195199

    Ahh..


    Thanks So Much a-gain for coming to my rescue, a-gain.


    Please accept my sincerest apologies for noticing this very late.

  • maazkalim
    maazkalim ✭✭
    edited April 2022

    UPDATE: So after the latest-release of software update..


    ...I thought to check the availability of NavIC™ aka IRNSS not just 'cus I do it regularly from the "GPSTest" app, but for the first-ever time — the [G]UI of dialler has significantly changed.


    So.. Just an excuse, you know?.!

    And to my utter surprise: Most likely for the first-ever time, the app did show an Indian segment on the "L1" band( same as the Japanese one since quite several months)..

    ...But alas..

    As it turned-out, it disappeared after I rechecked few minutes later and I came to understand that it was most-likely the Satellite Based Augmentation System( SBAS) which is GAGAN, and not IRNSS which is a type of GNSS. Nevertheless, I'm confident that the farthest I could reach was Japanese GNSS, so is that worth something?



    P.S. I missed taking a screencap/screenshot, though. Simply 'cus I became uncharacteristically-optimistic and hence, assured of presupposed 'availablity'.

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