Camera Pro Update - Your experience

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  • ignas
    ignas ✭✭✭

    Pretty sure OIS is still controlled electronically - you can see the sensor moving when in photo mode or 4K video. It doesn't on 1080p and 720p.


  • Mark Coley
    Mark Coley ✭✭✭

    Why do you think OIS can't be disabled? I'm sure I read somewhere that this phone contains a Bosch BMI160 that would surely feedback movement to the camera unit. Seems pointless replicating accelerometer functions by having two on board chips that do it.

  • madbilly
    madbilly Super User

    I thought it was a purely mechanical device, but maybe one that can be locked by the software.

  • user1526748077629
    user1526748077629 ✭✭
    Hi team

    I could not find pause option in video recording mode. Is this a bug or was it intentionally removed in Oreo update
  • user1536323754226
    user1536323754226 ✭✭✭
    My 8 TA 1004 updated to Oreo as soon as I got it last December. Pause was never there in any versions of the camera app.
  • user1536323754226
    user1536323754226 ✭✭✭
    Hi Ignas. Can you explain how you can see the sensor moving?
  • user389
    user389 ✭✭✭✭
    OIS is in the firmware (hardware drivers). Open Camera app with stabilization disabled in the app's settings is still stabilized in both still image and video recordings - and has full field of view in all video resolutions (but no OZO audio, sadly). -
    I wish @HMD would hire Mark Harman and let him use the proprietary API's in a photographer's camera app for Nokia 8. - I have no use for Google's AI kid's toys... -- Hans
  • ignas
    ignas ✭✭✭

    Launch the camera in photo or 4K video mode and wiggle the phone a little.

  • madbilly
    madbilly Super User
    edited September 2018

    I tried the "wiggle" and it does appear that there's some inertia which suggests something is "catching up" but could this just be a delay in processing?


    I also noticed the decrease in FoV in 4K video mode that has been mentioned, this is a surprise. You think this is because of EIS?


    Generally, are some people (maybe me) getting mixed up with what is OIS and what is EIS? In my understanding OIS is a mechanical, or electro-mechanical, feature which compensates for motion/wobble of the camera by damping or compensating for the effects to try to keep the image stable. EIS has a similar effect, but it totally electronic (in software). Is my understanding right?


    If yes then I accept that it might be possible to turn off OIS but it would require either a physical block on the mechanical mechanism or a hardware switch (controlled by software) to disable the electrical power to the mechanical actuator. Whilst it might be possible, I'd be surprised if this was intended to be used because the benefit of OIS over EIS is that it is independent of the image processing and therefore doesn't risk degrading overall performance at higher resolutions.


    I note that only the colour camera has OIS, not the monochrome one, so perhaps the people that wrote the new app got mixed up about which had OIS and if EIS was ever used in mono-mode, and we end up with a big mish-mash where nothing works properly.


    More generally, I'm finding that the camera app crashes every time I try and use it now.

  • ignas
    ignas ✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    I'm not sure what you mean. You can see the bottom camera sensor moving in the opposite direction you shift your phone at. That's basically how OIS stabilizes. Try slowly turning your phone around it's axis for a clearer look.


    In my experience horizontal FOV on 4K video is identical to pictures. It does cut off the top and bottom to get a 16x9 format video out of a 4x3 sensor, so maybe that's what you're seeing.


    Yeah that sounds right. And I think you're right on the hardware switch too. The camera doesn't move outside the camera app. I'm sure it does need a signal to be activated and the reason for why it doesn't work on 1080p/720p might lie there. How they made it like that I'm not sure, maybe OIS is enabled by camera apps by default, which is why it still works in other modes, but the camera blocks it by 'requesting' EIS. I can't imagine it's intended, there's no reason for EIS if you've got OIS. Since what we have now is how Sirocco and 7 Plus (I think) handles EIS, I think it was just another overlooked bug when porting to Nokia 8.

  • madbilly
    madbilly Super User

    Right, I think I see what you mean when I slowly turn the phone round while looking at the camera in UHD in video mode - slight movement. I changed to 1080p video and then thought it looks fixed... and to UHD and now I think it looks fixed, not moving. On reflection, I don't think I can see any movement in any mode.


    If you change the video to 1080p, or 720p, then do your shaky/wiggle/wobble thing, do you think you can see the sensor move? If yes, then this means that the OIS is not being disabled.


    I honestly don't think OIS will be being disabled by anything. The video problems in non-UHD/4K are probably the result of a bug applying EIS when it doesn't have to.


    Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're writing though.


    On the FOV thing, you're right, I'd got mixed up with which aspect ration I was looking at.


    I get a crash every time I change from video to photo mode, and every time I try to access settings in video mode. Hmph.

  • ignas
    ignas ✭✭✭

    Guess it's best to show it 


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHJgKoM5H1Y


    Deleting app data is a good place to start with all the crashes.

  • djpimpek
    djpimpek
    Give back Google Lenns function and moved photos like on iPhone.
  • madbilly
    madbilly Super User

    @Ignas thanks for the video. To me, it looks like the OIS is working in your second and fourth shakes, but not the first and third. Is that what you see?


    If not then I definitely can't see it!

  • ignas
    ignas ✭✭✭

    Yeah, it was: home screen, 4K video, 1080p video, photo mode.

  • hughmnyksj
    hughmnyksj
    The sensor can be toggled on and off from within Filmic Pro. I was looking for movement inside the color module and not the module itself. Otherwise, same conclusions as Ignaz.
  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    My camera version is 8.1041.71 and i have noticed if i select the colour only sensor it doesn't "stick" and the next time i go back in to the app it has selected both sensors again and i firmly believe both sensors are detrimental in low light due to the lack of OIS on the mono sensor.

  • sualfons
    sualfons ✭✭

     @MrBelter: I can confirm your findings. Selection of a single camera does not stick if you restart the app (only when suspended for a short time).

    Also the pictures are better when you use the color camera only, esp. in low light.

  • madbilly
    madbilly Super User

    @Ignas thanks for the confirmation. Unfortunately I've forgotten what our conclusion from this is!


    Re Mono sensor not having OIS, I thought that the mono sensor didn't actually capture image data when in dual camera mode, only used for depth perception. So why would lack of OIS make a big difference to picture quality? (I'm not doubting there's a difference, just wondering if we've really cracked the reason). Maybe the problem is just that the image processing algorithm isn't good enough (which I think we already knew).

  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    The lack of OIS would result in more blur at slower shutter speeds due to camera shake but of course this is all speculation given the mono sensor appears to do absolutely diddly squat when you look at the exif data. However people do indeed seem to get better low light photos using the colour sensor only and lets be honest all the other camera apps that can only use the colour sensor do a far better job in low light.


    Regardless of whether it is the lack of OIS or poor image processing you should be able to lock out the mono sensor as it appears to just complicate matters.

  • sualfons
    sualfons ✭✭

    @MrBelter

    I think that low light photos come out better with the color sensor only is simply due to unfortunate use of monochrome sensor data - as you put it "poor image processing".


    It gives me shudders when I see "leaks" of the forthcoming Nokia 9 with 5 lenses...

  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    @SuAlfons that hideous 5 lens abomination just makes me want to run away lol

  • 203
    203 ✭✭

    HMD struggles to get two lenses/sensors to work properly on the Nokia 8. They've no chance with five.

  • madbilly
    madbilly Super User

    This is why in another thread I speculated that they might not use OIS on the penta-lens monster. Would be odd not to see it on a flagship camera phone though.

  • user389
    user389 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    I'm not aware of alignment issues from the monochrome sensor in Nokia 8, but sometimes have issues when the camera app (or the firmware) decides to stack two or more images, taken a fraction of a second apart, for noise reduction and/or HDR or retouching or (*)
    - Switching off HDR in HMD's app works for me in most circumstances, and Open Camera is used when more manual tweaking is needed.


    (*) I still miss official information regarding how the Nokia 8 camera hardware and firmware works under the hood and don't want to publish my guesswork.


    --
    Hans

  • user1527850857326
    user1527850857326 ✭
    I got the new from nokia power user. The new camera app for nokia 8 will be out with Android Pie update. This is correct news?
  • navaneethakumar
    navaneethakumar ✭✭

    yes...i see some tweet by Juho Sarvikas

  • Vicky max
    Vicky max ✭✭✭

    Juho Sarvikas given lot of tweets from 1 years onwards about this isssue, but no use in real world becauses nokia launching lot of mobiles bulkly, hence their do not have time to afford  fixing bugs in nokia 8. to be honestly speaking nokia fail giving competition in camera department when compare to other brands...these guys are bad in software optimazation.

  • Mark Coley
    Mark Coley ✭✭✭

    Try a long press on the camera icon then chose app info...

    image

  • AndyQ
    AndyQ ✭

    I haven't tried anything complicated with the camera but the "beep" that gets recorded on video is a bit ridiculous. Is there a way to turn this off - or have it beep before the audio recording begins? I was going crazy trying to find some weird setting in my NLE until I realised the beeps were recorded in the original clips... pretty dopey!

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