Penta-lens camera phone monster

Hi all, Great things are afoot!

Penta-lens camera phone monster

madbilly madbilly
Super User  /  edited September 2018
Hi all,

Great things are afoot!

Rumours have been around for a while that HMD are working on a phone with camera with FIVE lenses! Now, believable pictures are starting to circulate the web showing what appears to be this phone and even it's model number, TA-1094. This is new model number, not previously seen. Could it be the Nokia 9? Or even the Nokia 10! (I hope the latter, a successor to the 1020). Will it use the PureView brand?

What do you think about these rumours?

Cheers :)


  • Ekbz Ekbz
    ✭✭  /  edited September 2018

     I thinks that will be amazing! I was thinking, this Nokia device was leaked >> Have some news?

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    I don't remember seeing those specific pictures before but I think that the rumours of a "Fabula" i.e. Lumia style phones from HMD and the associated pictures were proven to be fake. Those pictures don't look exactly the same, but they are similar.

    I think that the rumours of a Nokia 9 with penta-lens camera are becoming more and more trustworthy, awesome!

  • Ekbz Ekbz
    ✭✭  /  edited September 2018

    Yes, it will be awesome. Will be one Nokia 2018 flagship, Nokia 9 with pentalens?

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 

    There's more rumours about this phone now. Images of the screen it will apparently have which shows it doesn't have a notch, does have curved sides. Some apparent "leaks" of the memory specs on the Samsung (!) website! Also some rumours that it's been delayed until March next year :(

    Anyway, in this thread I'd rather focus on the cameras.

    The Cameras! All five of them!

    Yes, apparently only 5, although the pictures show a layout that appears to have 7, one is the flash and one if the IR/laser for autofocus.

    So, how will these 5 cameras work? So far on HMD phones we've had three main types of multi-camera setup:

    1. A colour camera with OIS and a mono camera (Nokia 8)
    2. Two colour cameras, one telephoto (8 Sirocco and 7 plus), no OIS
    3. A main colour camera and a small mono camera for use only as a depth sensor (X6 and X5), no OIS

    I'm assuming that these setups have all been used to fine-tune the algorithms which combine these types of sensors. Now HMD will try to use all of these types in a single phone!

    So which sensors will they use? Well, there's loads of speculation about this, but there's probably be a main "natural" FOV camera; at least one telephoto camera; a monochrome camera that will also be used as a depth sensor in colour photos and.... well I've run out of ideas! Maybe a wide angle camera as well.

    A last point is whether they will include OIS or not. OIS is something that will be expected from a flagship camera phone, especially one from Nokia that will probably use the PureView brand. However, those of us with a Nokia 8 aren't sure that the OIS is being used properly, or at least the software isn't using EIS properly when OIS is already being used. This is leading to some unsatisfactory photos and videos. I hope that HMD are going to use OIS in this penta-lens phone and that this will also get the 8 fixed in the process.

    If you've got any ideas about how this camera set-up will work them please share!
    Cheers :)

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  /  edited December 2018
    The 1094 had passed Bluetooth certification along with models 1082 and 1087, so all the are probably the same model.
    Thanks to Nokiamob for the tip :)

    Three variants of Nokia 9? I think they'll be for different regions: 1082 for China, 1087 for EEC and 1094 for Europe/USA/rest of the world?

    When will we see it? I wonder if it will be 14th January, when the 8.1 is planned to launch in Europe?

    What about the cameras? Well, the new 8.1 has a single camera with OIS and a secondary high res depth sensor. The 8.1 apparently uses EIS and OIS together, which is something that HMD still haven't fixed on the 8...

    In Dubai I spoke to a gentleman from ZEISS about multi camera setups. He didn't tell me any details or confirm that he would launch one, but he did explain some things I found helpful to understand what the cameras in the penta-lens camera monster could be!

    One option is an array of identical cameras. This can increase the effective resolution in the same way that arrays of astronomical telescopes can. However this requires lots of processing power.

    Another option is to have many different cameras. Eg, different focal lengths ranging from very wide angle to very long zoom. In this case only one camera would be used at a time, as far as I understand.

    Or a combination of both above.

    From the apparent photos it's difficult to determine if all the cameras are identical or not.

    What do you think?

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 
    Ooooh, shiny new pics and vids! :D

    Somehow MySmartPrice in India have got their hands on (what appears to be a genuine) promotional video for the Nokia 9! Someone in HMD must be leaking...

    The video looks great and gives loads of technical details so I won't list everything. The camera setup is indeed 5 cameras and it says it captures 10x the amount of light that a standard smartphone camera captures... so 5x a good smartphone camera then ;) This suggests that they will be an array of identical cameras then, not different cameras for different uses. If these are 5 of the Nokia 8.1 cameras then this will be great! To process all that data though I imagine they must have a separate processor as even the Snapdragon 845 would probably be overwhelmed by that.

    Also, the new camera app for the Nokia 9 appears to include Refocus, a return from the Lumia days (and 808 and N9?). This will be cool.

    No info about OIS though, maybe it's too difficult to coordinate five cameras?

    I have my fingers crossed that the new camera app also allows the Nokia 8 to finally capitalise on it's multi-camera setup.

  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 
    Prompted by a post by NPU I looked in detail at the Light camera company's smartphone "solutions".

    Wow! They look exciting and convincing don't they?! And the parallels with what is in the "leaked" video of the Nokia 9 PureView are clear (10x the light, image refocus) and could suggest that the camera array and processing which HMD will use in the Nokia 9 will be from Light. Reinforcing this is fact that "Foxconn has been a strategic partner and one of our early investors" and as we know Foxconn own FIH Mobile who are the manufacturer of Nokia phones in partnership with HMD.

    The page also hasn't been updated in a while, it says that "The first smartphone with Light technology will ship 2018." Whoops! Maybe that's because the 9 was expected to launch in 2018 but got postponed and they haven't updated the page, or maybe it was another smartphone from another brand which has somehow managed to get zero publicity!

    However, if HMD are partnering with Light then I hope that the result is better than the reviews of Light's L16 camera suggest it will be. They all show that if you zoom in to look at fine detail there are some unpleasant artifacts like blurring going on. Presumably this is where the algorithm isn't correctly fusing the images. If you look at the specs for that camera it has a Snapgragon 820 and an ASIC developed by Light. The Nokia 9 would almost certainly need a dedicated image processing chip as well.

    It's also possible that HMD, FIH and ZEISS are developing the Nokia 9 by themselves, without Light or with another solution provider.

    Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?

    Cheers :)
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