OTA updates and carriers.

I keep seeing the threads the carriers must allow an OTA update.

OTA updates and carriers.

JamieP JamieP
 /  edited November 2017
I keep seeing the threads the carriers must allow an OTA update.

This makes no sense to me. It's a DUAL SIM phone. I and, I'd imagine, most other people use SIMs from different carriers. What if one carrier approves it and the other doesn't? Which SIM dominates? Why does it even matter? How often does an OS update directly affect cellular operation? Why does it even matter what one carrier decides? It's my phone, not theirs. I travel and use multiple carriers so my main carrier can veto an update? Really?

Comments

  • user1509445273356 user1509445273356
    ✭✭  /  edited November 2017
    sim1 is primary. So sim1 carrier should authorize OTA update.

    System update can make your phone incompatible with carrier settings due to country regulatory requirements or whatever. Your phone is your responsibility and you can use it in different countries, install whatever firmware at your own risk. But carrier should not propagate untested (and potentially incompatible) firmware updates into its network.
  • user1509445273356 user1509445273356
    ✭✭  /  edited February 2018
    Personally I think that HMD Global should provide a way to install updates manually at user's discretion. Google does this way for their Nexus and Pixel phones, anyone can download full OTA image from developers.google.com and install it.
  • Mobile phone standards are supposed to be global and STANDARD. If anything is "untested"or "potentially incompatible" then it should not be released at all.
  • Simon Simon
     /  edited February 2018
    I agree. My carrier should should not be able to prevent me from updating my phone via wifi and yet I have to change SIM to get OTA updates. You can fix this Nokia.
  • At least provide an alternative update mechanism. Microsoft and Apple don't have this problem!
  • user1509445273356 user1509445273356
    ✭✭  /  edited November 2017
    Jamie, mobile standards are STANDARD and global, but regulatory, safety, legal requirements are different for different countries. For example some bands/channels are not supported by a carrier or are not allowed to use by govt. Therefore firmware for a handset operating in a carrier's network should be tested by the carrier for compliance.
  • I understand the logic behind the answer but the practical application of it is ridiculous. If for example, picking two countries at random, my Thailand carrier approves and update and I then travel to the UK where Vodafone have rejected the update due to regulatory issues in that country - does this mean that my phone should not be used in the UK because it's non-compliant, or worse still, will it just not work. 

    I say again, if an update is non-compliant in any way, in any geography, it shouldn't be released at all.

  • You can use your phone with Thai firmware in UK, but if it does not work in UK due to compliance issues it's your problem. For example Chinese firmware have no google services and play market. And you cannot demand google stuff working in China if you travel to China with your phone having non-China firmware, and vice verse is true as well.
  • "if it does not work in UK due to compliance issues it's your problem."


    Seriously??????


    If I find myself in this position then I will be returning to Samsung and will make sure everyone I know stays well away from Nokia!!

  • Samsung uses the same process of testing and authorizing OTA updates by carriers. The only difference to Nokia it does not advertise monthly updates and many ppl are unaware. Know enough ppl with samsungs sitting on Android 6, while their handsets are upgradeable to Android 7. For some ppl OTA updates is not a big deal, they buy new phone every year and get latest and greatest Android with it.
  • JamieP JamieP
     /  edited November 2017

    The Nokia 6 already has variants such as the TA-1000, TA-1003 etc. to deal with market specific issues such as Google and China.  


    The Global version TA-1021 as far as have been able to research so far has one standard stock firmware, whereas Samsung has country specific firmware for its phones and some cases, carrier specific branded firmware. The case of the carrier specific firmware is the only case where they should have any control.


    Nokia (HMD) should ensure the firmware is suitable for the market it's released in when the phone is sold and also for any updates. If Nokia is unable to do this with updates then they should then perhaps they should consider country specific firmware going forward.



    Beyond that, if some of the Android / Apps features may work differently / not work at all in different countries, that of course, is normal and should be expected. I do sincerely hope that the radio will work and make calls - which is the only thing a carrier should be concerned about - and this is Nokia's remit to make sure is correct before the firmware is released.


    ************************************************************************************


    I have one further technical question before I accept defeat:-


    How does this process work?


    I assume that when an update check is made, my phone connects to a Nokia / HMD server. The server queries the phone model, location, and carrier. Then if an update is available and that carrier is on the "whitelist" then the update is carried out?


    This is a slightly farcical system as can be seen from the discussions on the forum elsewhere about swapping SIMs to get updates.  All this does is create confusion and frustration among your customers.


    ********************************************************************************************************


    .  

  • I believe TA-1021, TA-1025, TA-1033, TA-1039 are all considered global and under the hood share the same stock firmware. Just slight hardware differences in supported WCDMA/LTE bands, single/dual SIM, and hearing aid compatibility. 


    Your assumption about OTA update process is correct. And I also found it farcical :) But I understand HMD, I think for them it's much easier/cheaper to delegate firmware/update compliance testing to carriers rather than get complaints later if something goes wrong for customers of a specific carrier. For example, some LTE band supported by your carrier stopped working after update if you were impatient and swapped SIM to another carrier (which may not use that LTE band and does not care). It's your problem not the problem of your carrier or HMD. But if HMD/carrier pushes that firmware update to your phone it will become their problem.

  • user1506421232616 user1506421232616
     /  edited February 2018

    It is NOT THE CASE and it is WRONG, that carriers have to have to allow Nokia 3,5,6,8 Updates!!


    I really don't know, why frequently people claim this as a truth.

    A carrier only have to allow updates, if  the phone has a special carrier branding, what nearly no Nokia Phone has.


    When an Android phone is looking for an Update, the phone sends many data about the phone, like carrier name and carrier id from your SIM to a special google server. This server responds with an download link to the update for the phone, if all the send data about the phone matches with an entry in the Android OTA Update Database.


    To get an update for your phone, the Nokia developers have to make an entry for exactly your Phone and for exactly your carrier in this Android OTA Update Database. If now on your SIM is not an official carrier name and carrier id, your phone will never get an update. In my case the SIM had the old not any more existing carrier name "E-Plus". After the "Carrier Services" Android App changed the carrier name to "O2 . de", i instantly got updates. 

  • Too emotional.

    Google maintains OTA updates only for own phone models, Nexus and Pixel, and Android One phones. Vendors like Nokia or Samsung have own OTA update servers.
  • freeloader freeloader
    ✭✭  / 

     

    I really don't know, why frequently people claim this as a truth.

    A carrier only have to allow updates, if  the phone has a special carrier branding, what nearly no Nokia Phone has.


    When an Android phone is looking for an Update, the phone sends many data about the phone, like carrier name and carrier id from your SIM to a special google server. This server responds with an download link to the update for the phone, if all the send data about the phone matches with an entry in the Android OTA Update Database.


    To get an update for your phone, the Nokia developers have to make an entry for exactly your Phone and for exactly your carrier in this Android OTA Update Database. If now on your SIM is not an official carrier name and carrier id, your phone will never get an update. In my case the SIM had the old not any more existing carrier name "E-Plus". After the "Carrier Services" Android App changed the carrier name to "O2 . de", i instantly got updates.


    Interesting. But how do I explain this to my carrier? I also have O2 and when I ask their support they tell me that they dont manupiluate updates and the SIM Card has nothing to do with updates. 



  • freeloader freeloader
    ✭✭  / 

    user1506421232616


    My carrier is saying otherwise. I also have O2 and they told me that SIM card has nothing to do with updates.

  • Hi all
    There is a quick answer to this, the phone networks are worried about hacks and other code issues in programming on updates there was a group that did something to their phone bills ( think it was long distance calls ) so they block and check but if you want to update your phone take out you both Sims back up and restart your phone from factory setting the firmware will update.
  • Factory reset every month is not an option

  • We'll I just got my first OTA update without changing my SIM. Thanks Nokia!
  • You're lucky. Stuck at August update in NZ. The only carrier selling Nokia 6 in NZ is Spark, but it sells TA-1021, while I have TA-1025 from Amazon. I guess that means no OTA updates for my phone. Did not want to do manual sideload of unverified updates , but seems like I have to.
  • Or try another carriers SIM (even if they don't sell the phone. Just try the biggest carrier) or factory reset.
  • Tried Vodafone NZ and Spark NZ, the both are biggest, with no luck. But I found a way how to get direct URL to OTA update zip.

  • Btw, the only thing that matters is carrier ID consisting of mobile country code and mobile network code. In intercepted OTA request replaced my carrier MCCMNC with O2 DE MCCMNC and voila.
  • Good work. How did you intercept the request? I assumed it would be over HTTPS.
  • I intercepted it with help of mitmproxy. It works for HTTPS as well.

  • I only buy unlocked phones. So how does that work?

    When it first powers on, detect a sim it upgrades or downgrades to the version supported by the carrier?


    I recently bought two Nokia 3.1 phones for my kids.

    With the first phone, I bought, activated and installed the Sim first and it did a System upgrade during the setup.

    With the second phone I bought a $2 Sim and didn't activate/install it until after the phone setup.

    That phone also did exactly the same (that I could tell) system upgrade via Wifi .


    I don't see how unblocked versions of a phone can be available without being compatible at least initially with all carriers. Has anyone every been told that to move between carrier you need to downgrade the phone?


  • DibyaXP DibyaXP
    ✭✭✭  / 
    @user1509445273356
    How to use that proxy tool? To get ota
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