Pie - standard camera or gcam?

jdan
jdan ✭✭✭✭
in Nokia 8
I think gcam is doing a great job on Nokia 8 in really low light conditions, but I advise to use the standard camera in other circumstances.
Two examples:
Pictures shot inside, morning light.
One with Gcam (Tolyan's 1.4). On gcam I use HDR+ and manual focus.



And one with the standard camera (no position change!). I use HDR on, manual focus



The second series in the afternoon with filtered (direct) sunlight.
First gcam



But it is a close call! And perhaps it depends more on taste ...
I think both photographs of the standard camera are 'brighter' and the colours more true to life: wood - statuette - leaves of the orchid

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Comments

  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    I have got to the point where i cannot be arsed using Gcam better or not, it is even buggier than the terrible Nokia effort, you cant save to SD Card, half the functions don't work, you cant have ozo audio with video.

    I took this photo of Verity (a Damien Hirst sculpture) with the standard Nokia 8 camera app just to see how it handled subject given the incredibly contrasty nature of the shot and it came out surprisingly well.



  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    For comparison this one was taken with a Canon Powershot SX720 HS and it made a right hash of it compared to the Nokia 8.


  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    Nice picture! What settings did you use on Nokia 8? 
    Twin and HDR on? Auto or manual focus (tapping the viewfinder)? 
  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    Twin sensors (although I'd rather just use colour but the setting for that doesn't stick unsurprisingly) and HDR Auto, as ever i just tapped the screen where i wanted to set the focus and exposure and managed to take the shot before the ridiculous 3 second reset kicked in Nokia you blithering idiots.
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    So, we don't know if the shot was taken with or without HDR - the camera decided on that point. 
    I hope you also try my suggestions next time (shot 2) and a shot after the 'ridiculous' 3 seconds (shot 3). And compare afterwards.

    Shot 1 - your settings
    Shot 2 - HDR on - especially if you compare with gcam which uses HDR+ as standard setting!
    Shot 3 - some people claim the picture wil be a sharp shot anyway - anyway you can immediately notice that.

    My reasoning ...

    Twin shot must be the best picture on Nokia in most circumstances. As the Nokia 8 was the first Nokia with a twin sensor, they must have done their utmost best to make it succeed.
    Gcam is using only one sensor. So Google are doing their utmost best on one sensor. And thanks to lots of work of some people we can also try it out on Nokia 8. 

    HDR - most cameras nowadays use HDR tecniques. This produces another colour aspect and it may well be a sort of fashion that we all want to have much like loudspeakers these days that have a lot more bass than earlier on and don't produce a 'realistic' sound anymore these days. But people kind of like these unrealistic colours and sounds.

    https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/138719-dual-camera-smartphones-the-history-running-through-to-the-galaxy-note-8

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-dynamic-range_imaging


  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    Strange this is the second time I have written a very long comment and at the end I get 'Your comment will appear after it is approved' and bang everything is gone.
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭

  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    Okay. So, we don't know if the camera used HDR or not.

    Interesting to compare would be ... three shots of a scene.
    One: HDR automatic + manual focus within 3 secs
    Two: HDR on + manual focus within 3 secs
    (in gcam HDR+ is the standard setting)
    Three: HDR on and taking the shot after the ridiculous 3 seconds
    (some people claim that the shot will be sharp anyway)


  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    My reasoning ...

    About Twin - normally you would expect the Nokia 8 standard camera to take the best pictures in this mode as that is the 'new' thing they added (like Huawei). So, they will have invested most work in this.
    You might expect the gcam on Nokia might be better on single (color) as the Pixel only has one sensor and they must have gathered lots of expertise there. 
    (https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/138719-dual-camera-smartphones-the-history-running-through-to-the-galaxy-note-8)


  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    About HDR - most smartphones and cameras use HDR these days. It is a sort of fashion and as such everyone seems to like this kind of photos. So if people think that the photos of the Google camera are best they might like it because of the HDR effect - much like people seem to like heavy bass loudspreakers these days. 
    (https://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/what-is-hdr-photography/)



  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    Your Nokia picture is also much better according to me because of the composition. You only have the statue in the picture. And the sword seems to have an effect on the clouds. The clouds also seem to 'live'. So it also depends on the composition, on this site the technique used in your composition is called: Leave Negative Space ... with a quite similar example:
    https://petapixel.com/2016/09/14/20-composition-techniques-will-improve-photos/
    (Other people might disagree because your picture misses the most important element of thie statue: the pregnancy. So, fortunately you have the other one too. 😎)
  • martin.fd
    martin.fd ✭✭✭✭
    jdan said:
    Three: HDR on and taking the shot after the ridiculous 3 seconds
    (some people claim that the shot will be sharp anyway)
    That's the way I usually do it (no matter if Nokia or Google Cam) - and actually it works (mostly) :)
    @ HDR: Nice comparison with the Boom Bass ... I normally don't like it, but there are songs, it just has to be there ;)
    @ Twin: good point - I will try it!
    @ Video: We were at a great concert on saturday: "Demon's Eye" (world's best Deep Purple and Rainbow cover band) and I filmed some songs. Nokia Cam to classes better (picture and sound!) than Google Cam ...



  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    After the update Android Pie 9 00WW_5.140
    imchandu03 said:
    - No double icons
    - camera app works fine but it is the old one 
    - for those who aren't able to turn on flash, clear all data 

    martin.fd said:
    - Camera version is now 86.9.1130.51 
    - manual focus still jumps back after three seconds
    Until a new camera update turns up, I can still advise you to have a look at my site for tips and tricks to get the best pictures possible with your Nokia 8.

    Have a look on 
    https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/42719/i-took-a-picture-landmark-edition/
    to see photographs shot by Nokia cameras and see how well or how bad Nokia 8 camera really is.

    Writing this listening to 'Nothing But a Breeze' by Jesse Winchester on Radio Paradise. Thanks to the radio.net app and Google Chromecast on my stereo. Lovely!
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019

    jdan said

    Interesting to compare would be ... three shots of a scene with the stock camera app.
    One: HDR automatic + manual focus within 3 secs
    Two: HDR on + manual focus within 3 secs
    (in gcam HDR+ is the standard setting)
    Three: HDR on and taking the shot after the ridiculous 3 seconds
    (some people claim that the shot will be sharp anyway)
    My experience: best shot in most circumstances is number two. And like @martin.fd says also shot 3 mostly gives good results. In my opinion these shots are better than (my version of) gcam. That's why I am quite pleased with the Nokia 8 camera. And I am amazed by the continuing negative comments of this camera (for instance in This whole Android Pie mess).
  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    jdan said:
    My reasoning ...

    About Twin - normally you would expect the Nokia 8 standard camera to take the best pictures in this mode as that is the 'new' thing they added (like Huawei). So, they will have invested most work in this.
    You might expect the gcam on Nokia might be better on single (color) as the Pixel only has one sensor and they must have gathered lots of expertise there. 
    (https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/138719-dual-camera-smartphones-the-history-running-through-to-the-galaxy-note-8)


    When using twin sensors the B&W one is only used for depth information it doesn't add anything to the actual image quality.

    This is one of my main reasons behind my speculation it overcomplicates things and every other camera app that only uses the colour sensor being snappier (excuse the pun)
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    But if the colour sensor is the better option in your opinion, then you are as happy with the camera as I am, aren't you?
  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    I always go for the HMD app first and as i have said before if you put a little thought in to rather than just pressing the shutter the results are more often that not fine.

    IMHO the HMD app just needs some tweaking, i just don't understand how after all this time there has been zero progress with it.

    If they could just add the following few things it would be fine i am sure. When you select the area to set focus and exposure it remains locked and does not jump back to centre after 3 seconds, tap to shoot, focus lock or fixed focus option when shooting video and remove electronic stabilisation at 1080p. Those 4 things don't seem like the most complicated things to implement if i am being honest.
  • MrBelter
    MrBelter ✭✭✭✭
    jdan said:
    Your Nokia picture is also much better according to me because of the composition. You only have the statue in the picture. And the sword seems to have an effect on the clouds. The clouds also seem to 'live'. So it also depends on the composition, on this site the technique used in your composition is called: Leave Negative Space ... with a quite similar example:
    https://petapixel.com/2016/09/14/20-composition-techniques-will-improve-photos/
    (Other people might disagree because your picture misses the most important element of thie statue: the pregnancy. So, fortunately you have the other one too. 😎)
    The statue is about peeling the layers back for truth and justice not her pregnancy which is why one side of her is complete and one side is peeled back :smile:

    Here is another real world shot with taken with the Nokia app (app set to photo with HDR on auto). Again the camera has handled the well lit subject and the in shade background well thanks to setting the focus and exposure with a tap before shooting.


  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    So zero progress is not fair really. The most important upgrade was the totally new app that reached the first Nokia 8's on May 31st 2018, and which was updated to the version we know today in early September 2018. This new camera app added lots of extras that absolutely weren't present in the original app: the pro settings. AND perhaps more important for everyday use HDR was also much improved so that photos taken in low light got really better. 

    Unfortunately there are almost no tests available on the internet to prove this point. If you search on Google for camera tests of Nokia 8 after May 31st 2018 the only one I have found is:
    https://nokiapoweruser.com/nokia-8-pro-camera-ui-demo-issues-tips-to-get-better-imaging-quality/

    Nokia wasn't very helpful either. They gave a substantial camera update - a totally new app really - but 'forgot' to give a manual. They even 'forgot' to tell the customers what the new features were ... I only found a very, very short commercial explaining that you could now tweak a few pro settings.

    (I hope my manual can be of some use now ...)

    What you ask for in your comment are really a number of extra new features that would make the camera app better. You and I can only hope they are still working on the camera app and ask, hope or beg that these features will be added in a next update.
  • Jivko Antonov
    Jivko Antonov ✭✭✭
    The main bugs are 3 for me.
    - the 3 sec focus and then return to the center
    - when using the flash it always refocus the center and takes the wrong exposure and picture is always dark. If you use the camera from Nokia 7.1 Oreo you will never have this problem
    - in video recording the always refocusing "hunting focus" even to the slightest move
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    Zero progress is not fair really. The most important upgrade was the totally new app that reached the first Nokia 8's on May 31st 2018, and which was updated to the version we know today in early September 2018. This new camera app added lots of extras that absolutely weren't present in the original app: the pro settings. AND perhaps more important for everyday use HDR was also much improved so that photos taken in low light got really better. 

    Unfortunately there are almost no tests available on the internet to prove this point. If you search on Google for camera tests of Nokia 8 after May 31st 2018 the only one I have found is:
    https://nokiapoweruser.com/nokia-8-pro-camera-ui-demo-issues-tips-to-get-better-imaging-quality/ 

    Nokia wasn't very helpful either. They gave a substantial camera update - a totally new app really - but 'forgot' to give a manual. They even 'forgot' to tell the customers what the new features were ... I only found a very, very short commercial explaining that you could now tweak a few pro settings.

    (I hope my manual can be of some use now ...)

    What you ask for in your comment are really a number of extra new features that would make the camera app better. You and I can only hope they are still working on the camera app and ask, hope or beg that these features will be added in a next update. 
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    My more optimistic point of view about the camera and my Nokia 8 is - without doubt - due to the fact that I bought it in September 2018 - that is with the improved camera app on board and for only half the original price.
    See https://mijnnokia.wordpress.com/2018/10/17/nokia-8-een-schitterende-aankoop /
  • George Theodoropoulos
    George Theodoropoulos ✭✭
    If they really concern for the camera in next update the Nokia 8 would be awesome phone third after nokia9 and scirocco
  • petrus
    petrus ✭✭✭✭
    Nokia 6 and 5 with Android 9 have a new camera application and still focus works for 3 seconds and then returns to the center. So I do not think HMD plans to change into the future.
  • DibyaXP
    DibyaXP ✭✭✭
    petrus said:
    Nokia 6 and 5 with Android 9 have a new camera application and still focus works for 3 seconds and then returns to the center. So I do not think HMD plans to change into the future.
    petrus said:
    Nokia 6 and 5 with Android 9 have a new camera application and still focus works for 3 seconds and then returns to the center. So I do not think HMD plans to change into the future.
    petrus said:
    Nokia 6 and 5 with Android 9 have a new camera application and still focus works for 3 seconds and then returns to the center. So I do not think HMD plans to change into the future.
    New camera on Nokia 6 produces awful results
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    Nokia 8 camera can take wonderful pictures in unusual light ciircumstances.
  • potemkin
    potemkin ✭✭✭
    jdan said:
    Nokia 8 camera can take wonderful pictures in unusual light ciircumstances.
    Still inferior to lot of gcam ports.
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    Inferior? Forgot to take the same shots with my gcam-app - see the start of this discussion. Show differences and impress me and others. Add settings of both gcam and stock camera so that we can learn something.
  • potemkin
    potemkin ✭✭✭
    jdan said:
    Inferior? Forgot to take one with my gcam-app - see the start of this discussion. Show differences and impress me. Add settings of both gcam and stock camera so that I and others learn something.
    Trying to impress you would be mission impossible. I as I see it you started this thread to prove Nokia's camera app is better than a G cam in all conditions except in low light. Well, that's not true and I don't have to prove it. Everyone who tested quality G cam ports (like cstark for example), against Nokia's excuse for a camera app knows G cam is better even in superb light. Nokia's camera performs ok on a sunny day but far from flagship camera quality. Too much noise in its photos. If you're willing to live in a denial, go ahead. I'm not going to waste my time getting involved in some kind of photo testing matches, trying to prove obvious things.
  • jdan
    jdan ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2019
    1
    Flagship quality? What is meant by that? Are you comparing with Galaxy S9 - S10? iPhone XS or XR? I have a phone of 299 euros - one of its rivals at that time was the iPhone 7 Plus which nowadays still costs 659. Perhaps even that phone makes better photos today but I am not willing to pay that much and I am also not jealous. I am just an amateur photographer.
    2
    Gcam: sorry to give the wrong impression. I am really quite willing to accept one of these ports produces nicer pictures especially as I and everyone else can easily install them at no cost at all. And it will make my Nokia 8 even better! Up till now I have had two different ones and I am not really convinced so far. Which one do you like the most on https://www.celsoazevedo.com?



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