Camera Nokia 8 - Page 7

@madbilly they asked you to send a list of issues? What's this forum filled with?

Camera Nokia 8

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  • marsic marsic
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    @madbilly they asked you to send a list of issues? What's this forum filled with?

    The main issue here (that i deducted from what you said) is that they haven't even started to work on the camera fixes/adjustments that they've announced back in October, for November. Otherwise they would've been aware from all the shouts they received all over the web :#

    Anyway, I'll try to be constructive and add my 2 eurocents on the matter when I'll get back home.
  • martin.fd martin.fd
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    madbilly said:
    Anyway, they have asked me to send a list of Nokia 8 issues so please remind me what all of the problems with the Nokia 8 camera app are (actual bugs, not just "it's poor" and variants thereof, as that is a pretty difficult problem for a software engineer to address).
    I think the best summary of all Pie Bugs on Nokia 8 is the list of @jdan here: https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/43272/android-pie-00ww-5-140-list-of-bugs
    (even if the discussion is a bit overdone again)



  • How much lists will you send to Support. I take it, too. And when they would read here, they would have the completely "list" with all the problems.  But, it will be not better. We heard, an Update would be come in Novembre 2018. Results? Nothing! Then we had to wait after Beta-Pie on the February-Security-Patch. Results? Nothing! And now? "Our developer-team works hard.. We  can hope on a Firmware-Update soon. We should please wait. And so on, and so on. I cann't hear any more. I'm afraid that they don't know, what the problem is and what they must changed on HER firmware    "understand", what the camera-hardware, developed FROM Zeiss, "needs". I'm afraid, it will be not better. They cann't reach the problems alone. This is the reality. Now they only interssted on her Nokia 9. For us they haven't enough time. I think, we are for HMD "history". Only, so they don't will tell us. That, what i see is, that it is useless here to write. Also to the support. It will be not changed, why HMD isn't interssted in to do "so much" for this OLD Smartphone. 
  • marsic marsic
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    @madbilly Here's my attempt of an issue list.

    What I perceive as generally accepted bugs/quirks:
    1. Camera app (Photo mode) - lousy results in low light conditions (extremely noisy, very dark photos) >>> Fix this!
    2. Camera app (Photo mode) - the app only locks the focus on tap for a few seconds, then refocuses to the center of the viewfinder (screen). >>> Let it locked for more, or even better, leave it locked where the user decided!
    3. Camera app (Photo mode) - some of the available manual settings are very poor for such a device that presumably is capable of more: the "aperture" (or whatever it's called) at a maximum of 1/2 sec (at least 4-10 seconds should be possible, correct me if I'm wrong).
    4. Camera app (Video mode) - the constant autofocus is ruining the video!
    5. Camera app (Video mode) -seemingly Electronic stabilization is forced, with visibly narrowed Field of View. >>> Make use of the available Optical stabilization capabilities!
    6. Camera app (general) - persist the user settings/modes after quitting the app (or when returning to the home screen)! If i set it to the Pro mode, with specific settings for exposure, ISO, etc, we'd like to return to the same thing next time! Even better, this persistence could have a toggle to enable/disable it! That'd tickle some alienated customers loyalty senses a bit!
    7. Battery management - Whats with the allegations from https://dontkillmyapp.com/ ?
    8. Compass (magnetic bearing sensor) has chaotic readings, most notably North and South being swapped. When you move the phone to take a bearing, the compass dial moves in the same direction as the phone!
    9. The Google assistant trigger phrase "Ok Google" is unusable, even having the toggle disabled (cannot enable/disable it).
    10. VoLTE - not sure of it, but I've read several comments on Twitter saying that even after the February update it still is unusable.

    Here follows what I personally perceive as problematic (most likely unpopular opinions, but please indulge me):
    1. Camera app (Photo mode) - the images have details smudged out, quite distorted when you zoom on them. From my observations, even a Nokia 6 or 6.1 takes much sharper details.
    2. Battery - after the January security patch, me and a few others have started to experience unusual battery drain, even in stand-by.



    Those more technically savvy please correct/enhance/add to the above as you may see fit.

  • MrBelter MrBelter
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    marsic said:
    @madbilly Here's my attempt of an issue list.

    What I perceive as generally accepted bugs/quirks:
    1. Camera app (Photo mode) - lousy results in low light conditions (extremely noisy, very dark photos) >>> Fix this!
    The problem you have with this is noise is noise no matter what you do and a small sensor packed tightly does not help one little bit. The only way to deal with it is to decrease the shutter speed (no good if things are moving) or increase the ISO which on a digital image is basically the same as just pushing the exposure. You aren't actually making anything more sensitive by increasing the ISO, you are just telling the hardware to push the exposure more and more and with that comes noise. Even dedicated software such as the wonderful Neat Image is only so good at cleaning that up.

    Unless HMD implement the trickery of the Pixel camera with night sight or somehow they get a dedicated AI involved i think we're not going to see any massive improvements with low light.
  • martin.fd martin.fd
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    In the lunch break I took again some comparison photos:

    GCam with HDR on                                            GCam with HDR off
    NCam with HDR auto                                         NCam with HDR off
    GCam version is this one: https://f.celsoazevedo.com/file/gcamera/GCam_6.1.021_N7P_test2.2.apk
  • marsic marsic
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    @mrbelter thanks for your input, you've reminded me that I bookmarked a page about photography, I'd like to learn some of these terms and how each impacts the result.

    I must admit that maybe I'm too drastic with my expectations, maybe after i learn some things about photography i may be able to more accurately debate this subject.
  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    @marsic
    You still have to show the noise in my pictures.
    (that sounds pretentious, but okay ...)

    For those that want to make the best of their camera ...
    (@marsic: that is why the picture you point at on twitter is sharp!)

    My photograph of Rotterdam IS sharp because
    - (of course: the weather is nice - moreover, I love clouds!)
    - the middle of the photograph is the sky - so the focus is infinite (which results in the best sharpness THIS phone is able to give, given I was on a boat and holding the camera in my hands.

    @mrbelter's photograph is very sharp for exactly the same reason. The (automatic) focus is set on the building in the middle. 

    @user389 may have had a bit of luck with the focus (or he may have tapped the correct spot. Thanks to the nice light conditions everything is clear and not only the object in the middle (the grass field).

    So you should always know what should be sharp. Look in the viewfinder, tap to focus and shoot. (Of course your settings MUST be: Twin - HDR auto or on (the last one especially in very low light or (the opposte) lots of light) - Flash off.

    If somebody thinks that is not correct for the stock camera - prove that you can do better. Again this sounds pretentious, but I will GLADLY copy your settings to get better pictures and post them on my site, I am not a digital camera expert.

  • Jivko Antonov Jivko Antonov
    ✭✭✭  / 
    1. Nokia camera HDR OFF
    2. Gcam auto
    3. Nokia camera HDR ON
    4 Nokia camera HDR OFF
    5 Nokia camera HDR ON
    6 Gcam auto
    7 Gcam Night Sight
  • petrus petrus
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    I add two more things to do with the camera:

    - PRO mode can not be triggered by sliding the shutter if the phone is in the horizontal position.
    - Missing sports mode in the app.
  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Numbering not that clear on my MacBook.
    What other settings were used (for the stock camera)?
    Twin I suppose? (Or did you opt for colour?)
    Did you choose the focus manually (with a tap on the screenviewer)?
    You didn't use HDR auto? (The Nokia standard) - but I normally would also use HDR on.
    For moving objects (the cars) - I would use burst function. In that case the HDR is switched off automatically.


  • petrus petrus
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Nokia 6 (2017) auto mode (Android Pie)


    Nokia 8 auto mode ( Android Pie)



  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    Nokia 6 is better. But both pictures are not that sharp.
    Other settings?
    Zoom in on my pictures of similar shots. Mine are much sharper, aren't they? By gcam and. stock camera on Nokia 8.
  • madbilly madbilly
    Super User  / 
    @marsic , an HMD staff member I spoke to was interested to know what all the problems we have with the 8 are so they asked me to send them a list. This person is not themselves responsible but I believe they intend to send this on to the relevant person in HMD. The fact that they asked for this list does not mean that they've not been working on fixes already.

    @martin.fd thanks for the link to @jdan 's thread, I'd not had chance to find that for myself yet.

    @petrus thanks for the additional points.

    Thanks everyone for the examples.
  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    Settings:
    Twin - HDR on or HDR auto - Tap to focus
    Grey morning light
    Holding the camera firmly on the back of a chair to avoid movement.
    (still a slight change!)

    https://flic.kr/p/24mBa6k
    https://flic.kr/p/RcG9BP
    (I posted them there to be sure you can see the original picture quality.)

    Both pictures are (remarkably) sharp!
    HDR on makes the scene brighter.
  • MrBelter MrBelter
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    jdan said:

    @mrbelter's photograph is very sharp for exactly the same reason. The (automatic) focus is set on the building in the middle.
    You are wrong, i tapped on the colourful thing in the foreground to set the exposure so it would not be underexposed against the much brighter background. On a wide angle lens it is quite difficult not to get everything sharp unless you are very close to the subject and the chances are everything in the image fell past the hyperfocal distance.
  • martin.fd martin.fd
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    A few more comparisons with the Nokia 8 - in my (personal) opinion the shot with the Google Cam (I use this one: https://f.celsoazevedo.com/file/gcamera/GCam_6.1.021_N7P_test2.2.apk) and HDR on is the best ... where: really sharp is none of the pictures


  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    mrbelter said:
    jdan said:

    @mrbelter's photograph is very sharp for exactly the same reason. The (automatic) focus is set on the building in the middle.
    You are wrong, i tapped on the colourful thing in the foreground
    Misunderstanding - I meant your other picture - https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/comment/85847/#Comment_85847
    (due to my editing my post suddenly came after your second photograph!)

  • Nokia 8 stock camera app HDR off


    Nokia 8 stock camera app HDR on.

    i think hdr is useful thing...
  • MrBelter MrBelter
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    marsic said:
    @mrbelter thanks for your input, you've reminded me that I bookmarked a page about photography, I'd like to learn some of these terms and how each impacts the result.

    I must admit that maybe I'm too drastic with my expectations, maybe after i learn some things about photography i may be able to more accurately debate this subject.
    Lets put it this way, even when i am shooting a wedding with Canon L lenses, Speedlite flashguns (which alone cost more than the Nokia 8 did) and Canon DSLR bodies you still end up getting noisy photos when it is a dark interior and you sometimes still have to resort to noise reduction software if the raw adjustments just cant save the day. If all that equipment struggles in low light how is a (relativity) cheap phone with a camera bolted on it with a tiny sensor and a minuscule flash supposed to manage?

    Even when taking long exposures in low light on a DSLR they use a technique called dark frame subtraction. The image below was a 37 second exposure of Loch Long and the village of Arrochar in Scotland (you could not see the hills with the naked eye). After i closed the shutter the camera then took another 37 second exposure of absolute blackness and compared the 2 images and what appears in the black image (such as hot pixels or noise) was then subtracted from the first image to make it look ok, it didn't just come out ok it needed digital tampering by the camera before i even saw the image.



  • MrBelter MrBelter
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    jdan said:
    mrbelter said:
    jdan said:

    @mrbelter's photograph is very sharp for exactly the same reason. The (automatic) focus is set on the building in the middle.
    You are wrong, i tapped on the colourful thing in the foreground
    Misunderstanding - I meant your other picture - https://community.phones.nokia.com/discussion/comment/85847/#Comment_85847
    (due to my editing my post suddenly came after your second photograph!)
    Ah, sorry, please accept my apologies.
  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited February 2019
    @mrbelter
    apologies absolutely not necessary!  B)
  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    martin.fd said:
    A few more comparisons with the Nokia 8 - in my (personal) opinion the shot with the Google Cam (I use this one: https://f.celsoazevedo.com/file/gcamera/GCam_6.1.021_N7P_test2.2.apk) and HDR on is the best ... where: really sharp is none of the pictures
    Missing in your comparison: Nokia camera HDR on - especially if you think gcam+HDR on is the best one!
    (I suppose you use twin in the stock camera - and automatic focus?)


  • martin.fd martin.fd
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    jdan said:
    I suppose you use twin in the stock camera - and automatic focus?
    Yes!
    And as to the missing comparison: I now have a few days off and maybe there are some nice motives running along my way to catch up ...

  • https://www.instagram.com/omerldemirbas 

    i think if you use it truely nokia camera doing good job. 
  • jdan jdan
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    https://www.instagram.com/omerldemirbas 

    i think if you use it truely nokia camera doing good job. 
    Beautiful photographs! Stock camera, gcam? Can you share some tips and tricks?
  • jdan said:
    https://www.instagram.com/omerldemirbas 

    i think if you use it truely nokia camera doing good job. 
    Beautiful photographs! Stock camera, gcam? Can you share some tips and tricks?
    Stock kamera app with hdr.  Some of photos i take pic with panorama mode. İ focused camera to lightest subject of scere. Then if pic is too dark then i use google photo adjustment to make lighter.
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