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Copy of email to HMD: Nokia 8 issues

Hi everyone,As you may know, when I was in Barcelona I mentioned to HMD people several times about the various issues with the Nokia 8 and I was asked to send them an email about it.

Copy of email to HMD: Nokia 8 issues

madbilly madbilly
✭✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
Hi everyone,
As you may know, when I was in Barcelona I mentioned to HMD people several times about the various issues with the Nokia 8 and I was asked to send them an email about it. This is what I sent:
Hi [name removed],

At MWC you arranged for me to have a short conversation with [name removed] and you asked me to send you a list of the issues I mentioned with the Nokia which you could share with [name removed]. These are issues that have existed for some time and are a source of frustration and disappointment for owners of the 8. Most were also raised in the recent AMA questions thread.
I remember that [name removed] explained that he believes the online community and word-of-mouth will be the most effective ways for Nokia to promote the "just keeps getting better" message. This will only work if the devices really do just keep getting better, so these bugs really need to be addressed considering that some have been present for a long time. We can all accept that bugs sometimes creep in, but for them to persist for so long without being fixed is not acceptable.

Note that these are only the issues which are specific to the Nokia 8 (AFAIK); unfortunately I can't verify them all as my phone has not yet received the update to Android 9. I will send you another an email with issues which affect all phones, as we discussed.

I'll probably post this on the forum as well, since I think it's in the spirit of the community forum to discuss these problems openly. I look forward to hearing back from you with some good news.

Cheers,

As you can see I removed the names of the people involved as I don't want them to become the subjects of any kind of harassment.

I limited the email to bugs I can was certain about. I know that many of you mentioned many other problems, but these are the ones I felt confident I could write about. If you have other bugs then you could always write about them in a reply to this post. Thanks to everyone who has participated in the discussions about these issues and special thanks to those who started these discussions (click the links above and like their posts!).

I sent this email on Sunday and haven't had a response yet, which to be honest I'm disappointed about but at least I know I'm not getting special treatment! :D

I remain hopeful that this email does find it's way into the hands of people who can make a difference.

Cheers :)


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Comments

  • Jivko Antonov Jivko Antonov
    ✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    Just want to add that I don't have anymore a problem with fingerprints after February security patch. 
    I tested as drained the battery to 0% and 3 times already my fingerprints are there. Nothing is lost.

    I sent to support the same and the answer was this.

    "I'll be glad to help you. We are currently experiencing high interest in our products and services."
  • martin.fd martin.fd
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Very well "spoken" - nothing to add. Thank you for the effort!!!
  • MrBelter MrBelter
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    I really hope they take note mate and well done.
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    Thanks all. Great to hear that the February patch fixed the fingerprint issue - I think I checked this and still included it because it wasn't clear if it had fixed the issue for everyone. This is exactly where detailed patch logs would help!
  • singhnsk singhnsk
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    @madbilly Did you make 2 posts on the same topic? Which one is official? :|
  • potemkin potemkin
    ✭✭✭  / 
    Jivko Antonov said:
    I sent to support the same and the answer was this.

    "I'll be glad to help you. We are currently experiencing high interest in our products and services."
    Freaking robots.
  • MrBelter MrBelter
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    Maybe everyone should tweet the first post to Nokia Mobile and Juho Sarvikas at some point they will have to take notice surely.

    EDIT:

    The link to the original post is:


    Twitter Accounts:



  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    singhnsk said:
    @madbilly Did you make 2 posts on the same topic? Which one is official? :|
    Both are official! (Well, officially mine anyway!).

    They are both copies of emails I sent to HMD. One email was only about the Nokia 8 and the other was about all phones, because it was two different people who requested them.

    I agree it's confusing, but I wanted to be as open with everyone add I could be.

    Cheers :smiley:
  • petrus petrus
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    @madbilly Thank you for the effort. I hope this will help solve our problems.
  • potemkin potemkin
    ✭✭✭  / 
    madbilly said:
      • Video recording always picks up some crackling noises in the first ~20 seconds of use.
    Actually, any kind of audio recording on Nokia 8 makes crackling sounds. Try recording voice message on WhatsApp and you'll hear it.
  • ignas ignas
    ✭✭✭  / 
    It uses a narrower field of view because of EIS. There's no going around some loss of FOV when you're stabilizing through software. So the two top points are related, maybe you're aware, just to point it out. Whatever.

    Great write-up, not everything that I would like to see done (well unless the "new camera" would include it), but if they'd address THIS much, it would already be a celebration.
  • madbilly madbilly
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    @petrus thanks :smiley:
    @potemkin and @ignas thanks for the clarifications. :smiley:
  • user1515073786942 user1515073786942
    ✭✭  / 
    After all the problems I have experienced after purchasing a Nokia 8 with two lenses that Nokia/HMD cannot get working properly what makes anyone in their right mind think they will do any better with a phone with 5 lenses. I have tweet to the COO loads of times and like the rest of Nokia, Tech Support and HMD they just ignore . 
  • user389 user389
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    Thanks for the initiative @madbilly
    A few €cents:
    Crackling noise in video recordings with OZO audio can be mechanical (from components near the rear mic moving around or dust and debris) or electrotechnical from 'driving' the mic beyond its limit.
    It does not affect all Nokia 8 phones and the number of affected devices can, for what the forum knows, be less than 1% of units sold. (Most people only sign into a user forum when they got trouble).
    My Nokia 8 has this issue since ~July 2018 and can be borrowed by HMD if needed for proper diagnosis?
    Compass not pointing north: It has a huge impact on Androids location services and Google's built-in apps, not only Maps - lots of stuff depend on accurate location, heading and speed.
    The compass issue can also explain wrong or missing geotag in photos and videos reported by some users: If any of Google's location sharing / surveillance enabled apps crash in the background anything can happen.
    My Nokia 8 has not lost the fingerprint. It's for Google to fix along with the 'OK Google' issue.
    The power drain in my Nokia 8 is as usual but my Nokia 6 struggles after the Pie update, even after a factory reset.
    Android is never properly fixed before the next major version rolls out and it's not pretty under the shiny surface. Google's update and backup/restore routines are notoriously broken and may in itself introduce 'bugs'. The result is unpredictable when a counterfeit or poor quality SD memory is added to the phone.
    The recommended action in case of odd issues must sadly still be: backup all you want to keep, format the SD memory card in the phone, do a factory reset and set up the phone as new, without restoring a system backup and without automatic installation of third-party apps.
    Regarding the camera app, there's a conflict between making it look like an iPhone and easier one-handed handling, versus doing proper video recordings for the big screen with OZO surround audio < this only works when the phone is held horizontally.
    I'd prefer a unique Nokia 8 app that takes advantage of the ZEISS optics and the specific Qualcomm SoC imaging features. There's lots of potential under the hood for a competent coder with access to the system API's < I suggest let Mark Harman do a device specific version of Open Camera for the Nokia 8.
    (I'm not sure if Mark works for money but I'd be happy to donate another €20-25 to the project if needed).
    The coding of the current camera app for Nokia 8 is sloppy / half-baked, there's no need for more of the same.
    EDIT: I'll be happy to explain some technical details if needed but only if a person in charge or a programmer is listening and doing something about it.
    I'm a Dane, please add disclaimers and IMO's in the text where needed.
    --
    Hans

  • potemkin potemkin
    ✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    user389 said:
    Crackling noise in video recordings with OZO audio can be mechanical (from components near the rear mic moving around or dust and debris) or electrotechnical from 'driving' the mic beyond its limit.
    Crackling sounds are not exclusive to video recordings. They are present in every type of audio recording with Nokia 8 (voice recorder apps, WhatsApp etc.). Also, there is no indication whatsoever that this phenomena is tied to the rear mic or any mic. Since I've tested Nokia camera recording with all mic options (surround, rear, and front) and crackling appeared in all 3 cases, I find it really hard to believe that all mics (or minimum 2 of them) are busted.
    If crackling always happens in the first 20 seconds (often even less), then stops, and after that you can record for long time with no crackling, to me that doesn't really sound like a hardware defect. And if I take into account posts from forum members who noticed crackling after Oreo 8.1 update (with bundled new camera app), that really points to the buggy firmware as cause of this crackling phenomena.
  • user389 user389
    ✭✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    To check which mic(s) are affected by the crackling noise issue:
    Attach a wired headset.
    Dial *#*#372733#*#* to start the Android FQC self test.
    Perform the Mic Analog Headset Loopback Test on the 3 microphones - but don't blow into the mics.
    Mic 1 and 3 on my phone gives one "tic" when initializing.
    Mic 2 crackles for 10-20 seconds.
    - But only during the first run of the test. It works OK once it is 'warmed up' - also in video recordings.
    I always only speak for myself.
  • potemkin potemkin
    ✭✭✭  / 
    user389 said:
    Mic 1 and 3 on my phone gives one "tic" when initializing.
    Mic 2 crackles for 10-20 seconds.
    How many times did you check?
  • user389 user389
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    First in December 2018, and a few times in January, February, Match 2019. The issue persists and is fully reproduceable on my Nokia 8.
    What is the result if you run the mic loopback test on your phone before doing any audio recordings today?
  • potemkin potemkin
    ✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    @user389 I already did some other recordings today. If you haven't, maybe you should try recording video with stock app using front mic only? I'm getting crackling in all scenarios and don't believe I have minimum 2 mics broken in exactly the same way.
  • user389 user389
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    HMD's camera app always use all three mics. The processing for surround, front or rear is done in software.
  • imchandu03 imchandu03
    ✭✭✭  / 
    Finally , today i sold my nokia 8 and bought Samsung A50, good bye for nokia and community, I will never ever buy any Nokia products in my life also i Never suggest anyone, thank u nokia for giving fake promises and worst pie and worst experiences , and those who helped in this community thanks for everyone, bye
  • Jivko Antonov Jivko Antonov
    ✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/5vmcakkJzKjVHNEa7

    This is my  last video from yesterday morning.
    Do you hear this crackling noises? For me the sound is perfect.
    This is my first video since several days.
  • potemkin potemkin
    ✭✭✭  / 
    Jivko Antonov said:
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/5vmcakkJzKjVHNEa7

    This is my  last video from yesterday morning.
    Do you hear this crackling noises? For me the sound is perfect.
    This is my first video since several days.
    Actually yes, I hear a little bit. First 2 seconds and then again around 11 sec.
  • Jivko Antonov Jivko Antonov
    ✭✭✭  / 
    I understand now what you mean. But it's not a big problem for me. It is just one click noise. I will test again, because the phone is with case and when I squeeze it hard it make almost the same noises.
  • petrus petrus
    ✭✭✭✭  / 
    I only have it in the first three seconds and it's really a very weak click. Also this is not a big problem for me and I can live with it.
  • potemkin potemkin
    ✭✭✭  / 
    It lasts longer in my case and it's not too weak. It could be some kind of hardware problem after all, maybe we all have faulty microphones (or some other component) to certain extent. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
  • Jivko Antonov Jivko Antonov
    ✭✭✭  / 
    potemkin said:
    It lasts longer in my case and it's not too weak. It could be some kind of hardware problem after all, maybe we all have faulty microphones (or some other component) to certain extent. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
    I downloaded again the camera app from Nokia 7.1(Oreo version) and this crackling noises are missing. The sound is perfect. So the problem is again software.
  • ignas ignas
    ✭✭✭  /  edited March 2019
    Jivko Antonov said:
    potemkin said:
    It lasts longer in my case and it's not too weak. It could be some kind of hardware problem after all, maybe we all have faulty microphones (or some other component) to certain extent. Wouldn't surprise me at all.
    I downloaded again the camera app from Nokia 7.1(Oreo version) and this crackling noises are missing. The sound is perfect. So the problem is again software.
    The Nokia 7.1 doesn't have OZO audio though and likely only uses the main, bottom microphone, maybe a second one for stereo if the interfaces are the same between the two phones. 
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